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-   -   High School Refresher Exams.Why Do Some Boards Supply The Answers? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/1109-high-school-refresher-exams-why-do-some-boards-supply-answers.html)

Jerry Baldwin Thu Nov 16, 2000 09:07pm

Each state association and some local associations look at the rules differently. In Arkansas the BB test Part 1 is mailed to all registered officials. That test in turn must me mailed back in by a certain date. A score below 75 prohibits an official from working regional and state tournaments, assuming the official is a Div. 1.

We are also required to have a local rules meeting with at least 6 officials in attendance. I take this opportunity to take the test in a group setting and I made a 96 on the test, screwed on the logo thing. But I know the rule now cause I reviewed it in detail. There is no excuse for an official not knowing the rules. I get very upset when I watch a game and an official clearly misapplies the rules.

For example in a district tournament last year an offical called a travel when a player dribbled the ball off his leg. The ball hit his leg and without any hestiation he continued the dribble. Whistle, travel signal. That rule was changed several years ago, but this official obviously had not read a current rule book in awhile. I think coaches, players, fans, etc. expect us to know the rules. I would have no trouble going to a closed book test. I think I could pass with no problem. Several years ago the test answers were handed out but not any longer. We have to take the test and pass it to work post season tournaments.

Love2ref4Ever Thu Nov 16, 2000 10:55pm

Refresher Exam
 
For those of you who would like to know,On my board we have a mandatory meeting,where the exam is given out and we are told to mail the exam back to the secretary by a certain date. And that's it!

BktBallRef Thu Nov 16, 2000 11:21pm

Re: Refresher Exam
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
For those of you who would like to know,On my board we have a mandatory meeting,where the exam is given out and we are told to mail the exam back to the secretary by a certain date. And that's it!
That's it? Do they send you your score? Does it matter if you don't send it in? Does it go toward your rating?

JRutledge Fri Nov 17, 2000 01:01am

Be a rulebook official
 
Obviously you do not do football or baseball. If you had, you would understand how easy the rules are in basketball. The rules in basketball are very simple compared to those sports. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to officiate a basketball game. And all those things that you claim I have a problem understand, I find it funny that officials that I have talked to about all those (college officials) agree with me on many of those issues that I raised. If it makes you happy, be a rulebook official all your life. But if you go to a camp they are not going to hire you on your rules knowledge. As a matter of fact, you do not need to pass any kind of test to do college or NBA. They judge you on the floor and the calls you make, not what rules you understand and do not understand. Be my guest, go crazy over situations that you will never call or see. Multiple fouls, PC and blocking fouls (at the same time) are all in the rulebook and the casebook, start calling that s**t and see how many games you do at that school or league the next year. They are in the rulebook. Basketball officating is 95% judgement and 5% rules application. I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials. But I have in a football and baseball camps.


Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Judgement calls (in basketball especially) are not going to be helped much by what the definition is. Fouls and violations are always going to be based on what the official feels that happens...
This is why Rutledge has difficulty discussing situations such as BC violations, three seconds, and team control to name a few. You can't call with your gut. You have to have a basic understanding of the rules in order to apply them properly and make the proper calls. In every rule book or case play discussion I've ever seen him involved in, his lack of understanding the basic fundamentals always gets him in trouble. And that's sad because all any of the rest of us have tried to do is explain things so that he could understand and get better. Yet he always ignores any opportunity to improve.


Love2ref4Ever Fri Nov 17, 2000 09:59am

Refresher Exam
 
To BktBallRef,
The answer to your question is they do not send you back your score,It does not go towards your rating,And I cannot tell you what happens if you do not send your exam back because I have allways returned my exam back by the deadline.Plus the deadline to have your exam returned is December 5,2000,And even if I didn't get the answers to the exam from my board. On November 20,2000 the answers will be posted on a paticular web-site!So that's why it is important to me to ask how the exam was done in other states.I am a official who just wants to make sure the exam is being administered in my area in the proper fashion!Because I couldn't believe some committee went to the trouble to prepare the exam,To have some officials look at the exam as a joke.

Dan_ref Fri Nov 17, 2000 09:59am

Re: Be a rulebook official
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials.


If that statement is *really* true then you need to find
better basketball camps to attend.

mick Fri Nov 17, 2000 11:04am

Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials.


If that statement is *really* true then you need to find
better basketball camps to attend.

Dan,
I don't get out much, but the Fed camps I know of do not stress rules, or judgememt as much as I would like. The emphasis is on mechanics.
If you ask about a rule, you'll certainly get an interpretation, but the knowledge of mechanics is the predominant issue.
Maybe that's a Midwest characteristic.
mick

bob jenkins Fri Nov 17, 2000 11:14am

Re: Refresher Exam
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
To BktBallRef,
The answer to your question is they do not send you back your score,It does not go towards your rating,And I cannot tell you what happens if you do not send your exam back because I have allways returned my exam back by the deadline.Plus the deadline to have your exam returned is December 5,2000,And even if I didn't get the answers to the exam from my board. On November 20,2000 the answers will be posted on a paticular web-site!So that's why it is important to me to ask how the exam was done in other states.I am a official who just wants to make sure the exam is being administered in my area in the proper fashion!Because I couldn't believe some committee went to the trouble to prepare the exam,To have some officials look at the exam as a joke.

That seems (as I read it, at least) to be the answer to the question, then. It's used (officially) just as an exercise in jumping through hoops -- send in the paperwork, "or else!" Thus, the local association does all it can to keep all the officials "eligible."

You seemingly (and correctly, IMHO) want to use it as a learning tool -- try the questions, look up the ones you don't know, really look up the ones you get wrong. Unfortunately, not everyone has that interest or desire.

Dan_ref Fri Nov 17, 2000 11:45am

Re: Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 
Quote:

Originally posted by mick
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials.


If that statement is *really* true then you need to find
better basketball camps to attend.

Dan,
I don't get out much, but the Fed camps I know of do not stress rules, or judgememt as much as I would like. The emphasis is on mechanics.
If you ask about a rule, you'll certainly get an interpretation, but the knowledge of mechanics is the predominant issue.
Maybe that's a Midwest characteristic.
mick

Mick, I wasn't talking about the fed camps specifically,
but every HS or college level camp I've attended has
included good rules & mechanics lectures to go along with
the games. The judgement part comes when you get to review
your game tape with an evaluator. (The more you're
reamed the more you learn ;) )
Maybe I've just been lucky...

rainmaker Fri Nov 17, 2000 12:31pm

Re: WHY DO SOME BOARDS GIVE THE ANSWERS TO THE EXAM
 
Quote:

Originally posted by Love2ref4Ever
Here we go again!
The feedback I am receiving is great, but is there anyone out there that can give me a straight answer to my question?

in our association, we receive a test and the answers, which we use to study with. Then on a given day, we have to take the test which gets turned in. So we do get the test ahead of time with answers, but it is not THE test. For the first three years in our association, if a person does not pass, he is given another chance and can send in the second test if it is better. This is so s/he can work and get better. It does not get him\her to full membership in the association. For that s/he must pass without help!

JRutledge Fri Nov 17, 2000 01:03pm

Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 
What camp have you been to that goes through all the rules? I would understand if you are going to a college camp and they are going over new rules and NF and college differences, but reading rules for you, WHAT!?? Even in HS, that is what your officials association and exam is for, and your free time. I can tell you have not been to many or talk to college officials (and I mean D1 officials) very much. If you did, you would that college camps are job interviews and you are judged on what you already know. Yes they teach, but the main purpose for them is to hire and fire officials. And that is why they do not officiate game in shorts, they where there entire uniform like a normal game. Shoes shined, pants pressed. But what do I know, I do not know anyone like that (ha, ha, ha).


Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials.


If that statement is *really* true then you need to find
better basketball camps to attend.


Gary Brendemuehl Fri Nov 17, 2000 01:45pm

Re: Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
And that is why they do not officiate game in shorts, they where there entire uniform like a normal game.


So, let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that knowledge of the rules of basketball is not needed to be a good official, just as knowledge of rules of the english language is not needed to be a good communicator?

JRutledge Fri Nov 17, 2000 02:17pm

Where did you get that from? I never said that knowledge of rules is not needed at all, of course it is needed. But if you want to sit around and go over every situation that can happen in the rulebook and casebook and obsess over all the situations in them and think you are going to be a better official because of it, you are doing yourself a disservice. The reason is, because that is not how you are going to be judged. You are going to be judged on your foul calling and game management. Evaluators are not going to evaluate you on your knowledge of correctable errors. They will expect you to do things to prevent the correctable errors from happening at all. And if you have a correctable error, you did not use good game management to prevent it. In football if you call a penatly, you have to decide what penatly you called and how to enforce it. Depending on whether it is HS, college, or NFL will determine your application. You do not have much to do after that. In basketball you have to decide if there is a violation or a foul to begin with and after you call the foul and violation you have some options (like shooting, not shooting, T or no T). Your judgement on when and how to apply the rules are going to be a bigger factor in your evaluation than anything.

Final example: I was working a summer tournament and called T for a defender slapping the backboard. It was very clear that the defender slapped the backboard, but after the call I was questioned on whether it was intentional or not and was asked how I came to that conclusion. Basically the shooter attempted a layup on the left side of the rim, while the defender (after not being able to get back and make a real attempt at defending the shot) slammed the backboard on the right side. The defender did so really late after the shot, but I was still questioned about my judgement. After explaining the situation the evaluator agreed, but he was not questioning the wording of the rule, but the judgement that I came to that conclusion by.


Quote:

Originally posted by Gary Brendemuehl
Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
And that is why they do not officiate game in shorts, they where there entire uniform like a normal game.





Gary Brendemuehl Fri Nov 17, 2000 02:36pm

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Where did you get that from? I never said that knowledge of rules is not needed at all, of course it is needed.


I don't know. Maybe from the following quote:

Quote:

Originally posted by JRutledge
Whether you understand the written definition is not going to help you when making calls and judgements.

Jerry Baldwin Fri Nov 17, 2000 03:18pm

If you had not studied the rule book you would not have known that the word "intentionally" was added to slapping the backboard. I guarntee there are a lot of officials out there who do not know this change. I have been told at every camp, clinic, etc. that knowing the definitions in section 4 is essential for you to become a good official. I have gotten the impression from JRutledge posts that knowing the rules is not important, but mechanics and judgement are. I strongly disagree. I can teach mechanics, rule situations, but I cannot teach judgement. Either you have good judgement or you don't. My judgement has improved over the 20 + years of officiating basketball and I continue to teach and mentor new officials. I would hate for a team to lose a game because I miscalled a backcourt violation, because I did not know the rules. I may miss a BC call but it is not because I don't know the rule. It will be because of my judgement. Big difference. I am sorry but knowing the rules can only help an official get better. Very few officials get worse because they know the rules. I don't mean you want to be a rule book official but you need to know how to effectively apply all rules and I've already called over 30 games this year.


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