This is one I could never figure out.On Nov.14,00 my board had a mandatory metting. At this meting the 2000-01 refresher exam was handed out. Now we go through this every year this time,But for the life of me I never could figure out why they make the answers available at the metting!I can't see the reason for going through the trouble of preparing the exam for officials and giving out the answers before the deadline to send the exam in. Maybe some one out there can explain this one to me. I also would like to know if other boards do the same thing?

U.P. here
 

Lov2,
U.P here, we used to call it <b>"Scooping a Test" </b>.
mick

[email protected]

Tests do not......
 

If you want to know the truth, test have absolutely nothing to do with officiating. Who cares if you get the answers or not. Whether you understand the written definition is not going to help you when making calls and judgements. Test just make you look at the rulebook and force you to have a basic understanding. That is all.

Re: Tests do not......
 

You've got to be kidding.

Re: Re: Tests do not......
 

Judgement calls (in basketball especially) are not going to be helped much by what the definition is. Fouls and violations are always going to be based on what the official feels that happens, all the rules are going to do is give a basis. When it comes to fouls, the rulebook is very vague about what a foul is and is not. Because in the end, it is up to the officials to determine if contact affects the play or is just incidental. Now tell me how the rulebook is going to help you there?

Re: Tests do not......
 

I care! In my 8 years of coaching I haven't had an official handle a correctable error situation correctly. Including one whose only response to my paraphrasing the rule for failing to award a merited FT (the book was being keep by HS kids from the other team and they didn't indicate that we were in the bonus) was "Im not going to give it to you coach". If you are not forced to look at the rule book and have a basic understanding of the rules, then you don't have a basis or standard on which to make judgements. I agree with you, that officating is more than just knowing the rule book, but please don't belittle the importance of knowing the rules. It is the proper application of the rules that make a fair contest.

Certainly judgement plays a major role on the performance of an official, but that is not to the exclusion of a thorough knowledge of the rules. Many rules have nothing to do with judgement ... such as correctable errors ... and must be administered properly in order to conduct the game fairly.

We've seen many poorly-worded test questions that make getting a correct (or wrong) answer difficult, but that does not mean an official does not to understand the letter and philosophy of the rules.

Knowledge of the rules is a key factor in an official confidently adminstering the game. If we kick a call because of lack of knowledge of the rules in a key situation in a key game, we may find ourselves without a job. If we kick a block/charge or pass on a bump during a shot, that is a far different thing.

Refresher Exam
 

Please everyone lets not get away to much from the question, I am reading some good points to this topic,yet I seriously need to know why some of these boards take a meaning less aproach to the refresher exam. Maybe coaches and officials should speak out and start saying," Hey lets give the exam the way a test is suppose to be given or lets find a solution to something that seems like a joke! In my area.

LOVE AND RESPECT!

Re: Refresher Exam
 

So what are you saying? Do you feel that they are important and need to be given or not? I just feel that test are not the end all be all of officiating. Yes, you need to know the rules, but knowing every situation under 2-10 is not going to make or break you as an official. If you understand what you are doing, 2-10 will never be needed. I have never had to use this part of the rulebook no matter how many times they put it on the test because I do the things to prevent it from happening. But that is me.

I agree that the rule book will not teach you judgement. However, successful officials understand the rule book - both the spirit and the letter.

Some people talk about officiating with your heart/gut/etc. - but that is impossible to do unless you have a complete understanding of the rules. For 99% of the plays - shooting fouls, out-of-bounds, etc. you will be fine. However, when a weird situation happens, you must be prepared. I would venture to say that half of all basketball officials don't know some simple case rulings - for instance, what happens when a jumper catches the initial toss? Most know that if the white team jumper catches it a violation, but they don't know that the blue team gets both the ball AND the arrow. That is a simple case which is clearly outlined in the case book, yet many don't know it.

So, what are those officials going to do when something really weird happens - like a foul, followed by a techinical for taunting, a fight, players coming off the bench, etc. If you don't know the rules you aren't going to have a clue as how to administer it.

On a side note - NBA officials get fined if they do not administer a play correctly - there aren't fines for judgment. Interesting, huh?

Brad,
If half of those officials worked NCAA rules they would be
correct, wouldn't they. ;-)

But I do get your point & it is a good one. Know the spirit
& the letter of the rules. If you work at them those
tests are very valuable.

Re: Re: Refresher Exam
 

You have been very lucky then. No matter what you do, there are times that it can come into play.

I had a very close game a few years ago where there was a foul with 4 seconds left. I checked and double checked with the table on the foul count. 9 they assured me. A1 missed the FT, B1 rebounds the ball, outlets to midcourt and calls timeout. Near the end of the time out, the scorer sheepishly informs me that it actually was 10. GREAT!! :( Send A2 back to the line and shoot the last shot---made. B's play that was drawn up in the timeout was now worthless...the game situation had changed. B lost when they couldn't get a three off to tie instead of a 2 that they needed before.

It happens out of your control. You gotta know it.

WHY DO SOME BOARDS GIVE THE ANSWERS TO THE EXAM
 

Here we go again!
The feedback I am receiving is great, but is there anyone out there that can give me a straight answer to my question? I am familiar with spirit of the game,The intent,advantage,disadvantage,and all that other good stuff! But where is the point of taking the time and effort to prepare the exam,and the time and effort to get the officials together,If the last thing these boards are concerned about is preparing officials to the best of there abilities for the upcoming seasons!

I can answer your question because you really haven't explained under what premise you get the test and answers.

What does your board do with the refresher exam?

Do you use it to study for another test?

Do you complete the test and hand it in for scoring?

Does the score count toward your rating?

Forgeting the answers for a moment, what is the exact purpose of giving the test to you?

We aren't all under the same system, so perhaps you would get the answers you're looking for if you explained the exact process in your area. Perhaps the purpose of giving out the answers in your area is just to get you into the rule book. I don't know. Have you ever asked anyone on your board?

I don't belong to a board. I belong to an independent association. We receive the NF Part 1 Exam and the answers as a study guide from our state association. We take Paat 2 of the exam as a closed book test that is scored and counts toward our classification with the state.

Hope that helps the discussion.

Re: Re: Re: Tests do not......
 

This is why Rutledge has difficulty discussing situations such as BC violations, three seconds, and team control to name a few. You can't call with your gut. You have to have a basic understanding of the rules in order to apply them properly and make the proper calls. In every rule book or case play discussion I've ever seen him involved in, his lack of understanding the basic fundamentals always gets him in trouble. And that's sad because all any of the rest of us have tried to do is explain things so that he could understand and get better. Yet he always ignores any opportunity to improve.

Each state association and some local associations look at the rules differently. In Arkansas the BB test Part 1 is mailed to all registered officials. That test in turn must me mailed back in by a certain date. A score below 75 prohibits an official from working regional and state tournaments, assuming the official is a Div. 1.

We are also required to have a local rules meeting with at least 6 officials in attendance. I take this opportunity to take the test in a group setting and I made a 96 on the test, screwed on the logo thing. But I know the rule now cause I reviewed it in detail. There is no excuse for an official not knowing the rules. I get very upset when I watch a game and an official clearly misapplies the rules.

For example in a district tournament last year an offical called a travel when a player dribbled the ball off his leg. The ball hit his leg and without any hestiation he continued the dribble. Whistle, travel signal. That rule was changed several years ago, but this official obviously had not read a current rule book in awhile. I think coaches, players, fans, etc. expect us to know the rules. I would have no trouble going to a closed book test. I think I could pass with no problem. Several years ago the test answers were handed out but not any longer. We have to take the test and pass it to work post season tournaments.

Refresher Exam
 

For those of you who would like to know,On my board we have a mandatory meeting,where the exam is given out and we are told to mail the exam back to the secretary by a certain date. And that's it!

Re: Refresher Exam
 

That's it? Do they send you your score? Does it matter if you don't send it in? Does it go toward your rating?

Be a rulebook official
 

Obviously you do not do football or baseball. If you had, you would understand how easy the rules are in basketball. The rules in basketball are very simple compared to those sports. You do not need to be a rocket scientist to officiate a basketball game. And all those things that you claim I have a problem understand, I find it funny that officials that I have talked to about all those (college officials) agree with me on many of those issues that I raised. If it makes you happy, be a rulebook official all your life. But if you go to a camp they are not going to hire you on your rules knowledge. As a matter of fact, you do not need to pass any kind of test to do college or NBA. They judge you on the floor and the calls you make, not what rules you understand and do not understand. Be my guest, go crazy over situations that you will never call or see. Multiple fouls, PC and blocking fouls (at the same time) are all in the rulebook and the casebook, start calling that s**t and see how many games you do at that school or league the next year. They are in the rulebook. Basketball officating is 95% judgement and 5% rules application. I have never been at a camp in basketball that they were reading the rules to teach officials. But I have in a football and baseball camps.

Refresher Exam
 

To BktBallRef,
The answer to your question is they do not send you back your score,It does not go towards your rating,And I cannot tell you what happens if you do not send your exam back because I have allways returned my exam back by the deadline.Plus the deadline to have your exam returned is December 5,2000,And even if I didn't get the answers to the exam from my board. On November 20,2000 the answers will be posted on a paticular web-site!So that's why it is important to me to ask how the exam was done in other states.I am a official who just wants to make sure the exam is being administered in my area in the proper fashion!Because I couldn't believe some committee went to the trouble to prepare the exam,To have some officials look at the exam as a joke.

Re: Be a rulebook official
 

If that statement is *really* true then you need to find
better basketball camps to attend.

Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 

Dan,
I don't get out much, but the Fed camps I know of do not stress rules, or judgememt as much as I would like. The emphasis is on mechanics.
If you ask about a rule, you'll certainly get an interpretation, but the knowledge of mechanics is the predominant issue.
Maybe that's a Midwest characteristic.
mick

Re: Refresher Exam
 

That seems (as I read it, at least) to be the answer to the question, then. It's used (officially) just as an exercise in jumping through hoops -- send in the paperwork, "or else!" Thus, the local association does all it can to keep all the officials "eligible."

You seemingly (and correctly, IMHO) want to use it as a learning tool -- try the questions, look up the ones you don't know, really look up the ones you get wrong. Unfortunately, not everyone has that interest or desire.

Re: Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 

Mick, I wasn't talking about the fed camps specifically,
but every HS or college level camp I've attended has
included good rules & mechanics lectures to go along with
the games. The judgement part comes when you get to review
your game tape with an evaluator. (The more you're
reamed the more you learn ;) )
Maybe I've just been lucky...

Re: WHY DO SOME BOARDS GIVE THE ANSWERS TO THE EXAM
 

in our association, we receive a test and the answers, which we use to study with. Then on a given day, we have to take the test which gets turned in. So we do get the test ahead of time with answers, but it is not THE test. For the first three years in our association, if a person does not pass, he is given another chance and can send in the second test if it is better. This is so s/he can work and get better. It does not get him\her to full membership in the association. For that s/he must pass without help!

Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 

What camp have you been to that goes through all the rules? I would understand if you are going to a college camp and they are going over new rules and NF and college differences, but reading rules for you, WHAT!?? Even in HS, that is what your officials association and exam is for, and your free time. I can tell you have not been to many or talk to college officials (and I mean D1 officials) very much. If you did, you would that college camps are job interviews and you are judged on what you already know. Yes they teach, but the main purpose for them is to hire and fire officials. And that is why they do not officiate game in shorts, they where there entire uniform like a normal game. Shoes shined, pants pressed. But what do I know, I do not know anyone like that (ha, ha, ha).

Re: Re: Re: Be a rulebook official
 

So, let me see if I understand this. Are you saying that knowledge of the rules of basketball is not needed to be a good official, just as knowledge of rules of the english language is not needed to be a good communicator?

Where did you get that from? I never said that knowledge of rules is not needed at all, of course it is needed. But if you want to sit around and go over every situation that can happen in the rulebook and casebook and obsess over all the situations in them and think you are going to be a better official because of it, you are doing yourself a disservice. The reason is, because that is not how you are going to be judged. You are going to be judged on your foul calling and game management. Evaluators are not going to evaluate you on your knowledge of correctable errors. They will expect you to do things to prevent the correctable errors from happening at all. And if you have a correctable error, you did not use good game management to prevent it. In football if you call a penatly, you have to decide what penatly you called and how to enforce it. Depending on whether it is HS, college, or NFL will determine your application. You do not have much to do after that. In basketball you have to decide if there is a violation or a foul to begin with and after you call the foul and violation you have some options (like shooting, not shooting, T or no T). Your judgement on when and how to apply the rules are going to be a bigger factor in your evaluation than anything.

Final example: I was working a summer tournament and called T for a defender slapping the backboard. It was very clear that the defender slapped the backboard, but after the call I was questioned on whether it was intentional or not and was asked how I came to that conclusion. Basically the shooter attempted a layup on the left side of the rim, while the defender (after not being able to get back and make a real attempt at defending the shot) slammed the backboard on the right side. The defender did so really late after the shot, but I was still questioned about my judgement. After explaining the situation the evaluator agreed, but he was not questioning the wording of the rule, but the judgement that I came to that conclusion by.

I don't know. Maybe from the following quote:

If you had not studied the rule book you would not have known that the word "intentionally" was added to slapping the backboard. I guarntee there are a lot of officials out there who do not know this change. I have been told at every camp, clinic, etc. that knowing the definitions in section 4 is essential for you to become a good official. I have gotten the impression from JRutledge posts that knowing the rules is not important, but mechanics and judgement are. I strongly disagree. I can teach mechanics, rule situations, but I cannot teach judgement. Either you have good judgement or you don't. My judgement has improved over the 20 + years of officiating basketball and I continue to teach and mentor new officials. I would hate for a team to lose a game because I miscalled a backcourt violation, because I did not know the rules. I may miss a BC call but it is not because I don't know the rule. It will be because of my judgement. Big difference. I am sorry but knowing the rules can only help an official get better. Very few officials get worse because they know the rules. I don't mean you want to be a rule book official but you need to know how to effectively apply all rules and I've already called over 30 games this year.

nf exams
 

I would like to second bktballref's answer.Here in my partof california we do the same.We take the 200 question test open book have it graded then take a 100 question closed test for certification.I think this is a good plan because it does force you to study.I also think knowing the rules helps with confidance and commen sense on the court.

almost the same thing.
 

Jerry,
I am pretty sure that is mostly what Rut was saying, that is to take the whole package, rules, mechanics and judgement and go out and be the best ref you can be.
mick

Here's My Favorite Test Question
 

I agree with the posts above that we all must know the rules. Every once in a while, the correct application of rules to some wierd play will become really important.

However, having said that, some of the test questions are totally bogus. My favorite from my first year test is "T/F: With officiating fees being what they are, the good money usually drives out the bad."

Now I ask you: what is the proper answer, and what on God's green earth does that question have to do with good officiating?

Correct me if I am wrong.
 

The original question is why boards give out the answers to refresher tests? My response was because knowing the answers are not going to help you out either way. If the answers to a test determine your officiating ability, correct me if I am wrong, but do NCAA officials have to take a test every year or anytime for that matter? Do those test determine whether officials even officate games in the NCAA? Is there a test different for the Women's game compared to the Men's? And does the same thing apply for the NBA and WNBA? I think the answer is a big fat NO!!!! And if that was the big factor please correct me on this. I can admit that I am wrong, but the several individuals that I know (worked with one in a varsity game last night), never had to take any test for college level games. I have gone to officials assocition meetings all over the area. I have run into several and I mean several college officials. I have never heard any of them ever having to pass a test each year. I live in the Chicago area and living here can be a benefit because we have access to two airports (which can get you hired or not in some cases) and I have never heard this. I have never said to never read the rulebook or never read the casebook and if you got that out of what I said, then you misunderstood and that could be my fault. But if you think that can quote the rulebook word for word is going to impress anyone other than yourself at the higher levels, then I need you and others to show me evidence of that. Because just the fact that I have never heard an NCAA official or NBA official say they had to take a test, speaks volumes to me!!!

Rut, I think I caught your point. At a clinic I went to a couple weeks ago, a very prominent NCAA official started the clinic by saying "know the rules." But the rest of the clinic focused on how to apply our knoweledge of the rules to game situations. We threw out the rule book details and said this is how we are going to call the game.

Look guys, you can't possibly "throw out the rule book"
until you know the damn rules. What rut says might seem
appealing to some of us (well, if you can follow it)
but the bottom line is you can't be a fair judge of the
game unless you have an understanding of what you are
judging. And unfortunately rut has demonstrated a
piss-poor understanding of the rules along with an incredibly stubborn refusal to accept criticism when he is
wrong. Not a good combination.

I didn't say he threw out the rule book but he did throw out the details that we all know we never apply. How many of you enforce the 10 minute rule of having to have the roster in before the game? I know I don't. But you have to know what the rules are and you have to know how they are to be applied. He told us that there are probably four to six rule decisions per game. The rest is calling the game. Your rules knowledge is the foundation of everything else you do. If you don't know the rules and one of those four to six decisions, then you look bad. You have to know them. After that you just call the game the way you have been taught.

Re: Refresher Exam
 

Thank you! That clears it up very nicely! I would have to say that, IMHO, that is very strange. The whole process seems to scream WHY? Why even send out the test or require it?

However, I got a copy of the IAABO test for the first time this year, from a web site. I was very impressed with it. It's much more appealing to take than the NF test because it makes you think about different situations as opposed to trying to remember how a rule was worded. It's a much more enjoyable test to take. I passed it along to our clinic leader.

Can you email me with the we site address that will have the answers? I actually know the answers but would like to have rule references in case there needed during the clinic.

Thanks,

Tony

Refresher Exam
 

I would like to take this opportunity to thank everyone for there feedback.I have come to the conclusion that some officials look at the refresher exam as being not as important to the development of officials. Then there are officials who because of there boards policies have no choice than to take the refresher exam seriously.Those officials I believe are probably sharper,when it comes to rules interpertation. Then I understand some of the officials who are looking to move up the ladder,And are more concerned with preparing for what they need to do to make that lasting empression on observers at the camp of there choice(By the way can someone tell me what is a fed camp?)And as a official pointed out,My board probably is just concerened with kepping it's members eligible!After looking at all of this,I can honestly say"what ever works for you" When I first became a basketball official,I was told that one of the most inportant things to learn as a official should be to look the part!So I guess to sum it up I want to look the part,and also have a working knowledge of the rues!

Part 1 and Part 2 exams
 

I will just say this as my final point about this issue. I am really not sure what you really mean about "refresher exams" in the first place. In my state we have to take an exam every year in order to be in good standing with the state and to be eligible for the playoffs. We take the Part 1 Exam and have to pass it with 80% every year before the season starts. We also have to go to a Rules Interpretation every year. If we do not do one of these things or both each year, we can be put on probation for one year. If the next year after that you do not attend both a Rules meeting or pass the Part 1 Exam with a score of 80% or higher, you then your license will be suspended. So it is a requirement of my HS license to take an exam every year. And if I am going for promotion, I must pass the Part 1 exam with 85% or 90% depending on what level I am advancing to. So my point is that we have to take these exams every year and different associations do go over these exams together. We can even do the Part 1 over the internet on the state's site. But for the Part 2 exam it is a open book test for the first level and a closed book for the final level to advance to. The Part 2 is also given on the same date throughout the state, this year it is on December 4th. And you must tell the state in advance (through the promotion forms that they have you fill out) where you are going to go to take the test.

So at least here, we are always aware of the rules and the definitions so for me it is just a matter of fact. But I still feel that knowing the rules only scratches the surface of officiating but is a healthy foundation.

Re: Re: Refresher Exam
 

Tony. I agree the IAABO test is more fun than the fed
tests. They claim the answers will be available at
http://www.iaabo.org on Nov 20.

Re:
 

We do, all of the time. But you always refuse to listen, refuse to admit you're wrong or hide beheind some question like "What the hell does that have to do with it?" or "Do you understand officiating?".

You could learn so much if you would allow your fellow officials to correct you when your wrong.

Still did not tell me how I was wrong.
 

What have I been wrong on, philosophy? Doing things in one way over another? So I guess I am wrong because I do not agree with everything you do? If I was wrong as much as you claim I am, I would not have the schedule, respect and opportunities that I have. That is the problem with you and many other officials here, you think there is always a right way and a wrong way. You do not see that all of us work in different states, different levels and work for different people. If you look at the NCAA conferences, do all of them do the same things or share the same philosophy, HELL NO!!!!!! Does the Big 10 do things different than the Pac 10 or SEC or ACC or any even the Big East? I will let you answer that yourself.

I live in Illinois, and here to get anywhere you have to do several things that I do or you do not advance, it is that simple. If that does not work in West Virginia or Texas, that is not my problem. At least I have some sense to know that. I was told long time ago when I started officiating, "take what works for you from others, and throw out what does not." I think you need to take this advice my friend!!!

[Edited by JRutledge on Nov 19th, 2000 at 01:49 AM]

I rest my case.

Do not be soft.
 

You still have not told me what I was wrong on. Don't be scuured (that is slang for scared for those that do not know), say what is on you mind or keep you mouth shut!!! But as you prove time and time again, you are all smoke and no substance.

TEST
 

I HAVE BEEN CALLING BASKETBALL AND SOFTBALL FOR OVER 12 YEARS AND FOR THE LIFE OF ME I DON'T KNOW WHY WE HAVE THESE TEST. I FEEL THAT THE OFFICIALS AND COACHES SHOULD TAKE THE TEST TOGETHER. ONE QUESTION AT A TIME. THAN EVERYONE GET THEM RIGHT.

Refresher Exam
 

First Thing Donna23 welcome to"The Wonderful World Of Basketball" Just when I thought this topic was laid to rest,Here you come with a different outlook on this dilema. If not have referees and coaches come together to take the exams,Then at least have all IAABO officials take the same refresher exam in the same manner!It came to my attention 6 years ago after attending camp outside my state that different states have different requirements. I like what I see other states doing,Especially the states that make attending a camp during the summer manditory!

Love and Respect

Dan - well said.

Rut - you always figure out a way of alienating yourself on every bball bulletin board I have seen you post on (have you ever wondered why this happens?). I suspect that you feel that everyone else is wrong and you are right - have you ever considered that this is actually the other way around?

For example, this is a quote from your first post on this thread:

************

Posted by Rut ...

"Whether you understand the written definition is not going to help you when making calls and judgements."

*************

What a ridiculous statement!!!!

The written definition is the source of all of our calls. You MUST understand the written definition eg. how to identify a travelling violation, how to handle correctable errors, how to determine if a defender has gained a legal position, etc, etc. The written definition is imperative in making calls - you have to know the rules before you make judgement on a call. Otherwise, you have absolutely nothing to fall back on.

A good official knows the rules. The rules are there - use them!! And on the court, let your judgement take over, based on the rules.

Cheers,
David

David.
 

I really think you missed the point. If you think that quoting the rulebook back and forth, up and down is going to help you one bit in officiating, then you are not going to ever see anything other than HS ball. It is just a fact, the more and more you officiate, the less and less that rulebook is going to save you. I officiate 4 sports and the rulebook and my knowledge does very little in the bigger picture in all of them. Officiating is a sales job, that is all. If your uniform is together and you "look the part," you can almost screw up a few times and little might even be said. I have walked away from games totally unhappy with the job I did, and had coaches and AD think I am the best official sense the wheel was invented. Rulebook knowledge has only been a little part on any evaluation form that I have ever seen in a camp. I think appearance, positioning, mechanics, are looked at much more than you lovely rules knowledge. I think you need to pick up Referee Magazine this month and read a couple of the articles in their and you will see "sprit of the rules" metioned more than once. But do not take my word for it, see for yourself.

And if taking an unpopular stance makes some of you upset (because it surely does not upset or even bother me) than you need to get some self-esteem and worry about yourself. I am not here to make everyone happy, I do not go through life and do that. I am here to share knowledge and debate different issues that most of us face. I grew up with the saying "there is more than one way to skin a cat," well that applies here. I went to several camps this year and not one, and I mean NOT ONE of the clinicians agreed on everything and all the philosophies that each other preached about how to run and handle a game. Put your little ego aside and get over it. I do recall that several individuals agreed with me and disagreed with me. We are in the United States of America not the old Soviet Union that is what we are suppose to do, disagree.

Refresher Exam
 

To bad we can't get some officials on the NBA level to give us some feedback on this topic! Since I know a couple of them I will see if I can get any of them to take a moment out of there busy traveling schedules to check out this site, If it is ok with the league.It would be great to here what they can share with us on this topic.

Re: David.
 

OK, for the sake of the argument let's agree with this.
Now, how the hell can you do a good sales job if you
don't know your damn product?

Re: Refresher Exam
 

I suspect they'll tell you to know your rules & mechanics
inside out, upside down, forward & backwards.

FIRST THANKS FOR THE REPLY LOVE2REF4EVER. HERE'S A GOOD ONE FOR YOU. I CALL IN TWO DIFFERENT STATES. I HAVE TO TAKE PART ONE FOR THE FIRST STATE. IF YOU SCORE AN 80 YOU DON'T HAVE TO TAKE PART II. I HAVE TO TAKE BOTH TEST BECAUSE THEY DON'T PLAY GIRLS FALL BALL IN THE SECOND STATE. TWO DIFFERENT CLINIC'S. ON THE SECOND SUBJECT. I DON'T CARE HOW WELL SOMEONE KNOWS THE RULE BOOK IT ALL DEPENDS ON HOW YOU APPLY IT TO THE COURT. WITH OVER TWELVE YEAR ON THE COURT YOU GET TO SEE EVERYTHING. I ALSO HAVE A QUESTION. HOW CAN I MOVE UP TO COLLEGE IN MY AREA WITH OUT SUCKING UP TO SOMEONE IN MY ASSOCIATION? I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME OUT WITH THIS. THANKS

Re: Re: David.
 

Your argument does not make much sense. What has that have to do with anything. If you sell computers, does the sales person know how they work, probably not. They might understand the features, but they do not know exactly all the components and probably would not be able to fix them. So it really depends on what kind of sales you are talking about.

You have also missed the point and I really do not fell like explaining it anymore. If you are not intelligent enough to understand how rules is just a small part of officiating as a whole, then this conversation needs to end.

Peace

I GUESS YOU JRUTLEDGE ARE TALKING TO ME. I HAVE BEEN ALWAYS BEEN TOLD IF YOU CAN'T SAY ANYTHING NICE TO SAY DON'T SAY ANYTHING AT ALL. BY THE WAY THE REASON OUR BOARD HAS AN OPEN TEST IS BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T SCORE 80 ON PART ONE YOU MUST TAKE PART II.

SEE YA

Re: Re: Re: David.
 

I do not miss your point, I understand exactly what you're
trying to say. IMO you are dead wrong but you continue to
hold stubbornly onto wrong ideas that you find appealing.
The danger is that there are many new people reading your
words who will think "Hey, this rut guy seems to know what
he's talking about, why should I concentrate on learning
the rules. After all, they're just a small part of what
I'll need and reading them makes my brain hurt."
Understanding the rules is not a *small* part of
officiating, it is one of the prerequisites to being
succesful & potentially moving up if that's your goal.
Now (to continue along your analogy) if you sell computers and you can't answer a question related to pricing, availability, use, operation, cost, lifetime, warranty, options, etc etc then you will not be succesful. These,
along with knowing how to calculate his commission, are the
computer salesman's rules. The salesman knowing how to
replace a broken resistor is akin to a referee knowing how
to refinish a large wood floor. Kinda cool but besides the
point. At any rate we've beaten this to death by now, have
a good Thanksgiving.

Wood floors
 

....is akin to a referee knowing how
to refinish a large wood floor. [/QUOTE]

All right!
Finally something of which I have some knowledge!

Did you know that many of the removable floors are made right U.P. here about 5 miles away? Many Final Four Floors.

Wrong person
 

I obviously was not talking to you because you name is not in the "Post subject." I am not concerned with the way your state or "board" the way you call it makes you take test. That is different in almost every state. We have to take a Part 2 also, but only for promotions.