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-   -   dribbler use of forearm (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/10821-dribbler-use-forearm.html)

psychobat Fri Nov 14, 2003 09:59am

I'm new to this board and have a question.
Situation: Last night I was officiating a jr high boys game and had a situation where one guard for one of the teams was using his forarm to keep the opponent from attacking his dribble. He never pushed off with the forearm but I saw it as an advantage for the offense so I called a player control foul on the dribbler? Was I correct in doing so? I know It is in the rule book somewhere but I can't seem to find it.
Thanks.

Indy_Ref Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:08am

If the forearm extends or is extended from the body, I think you can make a case for PC. If the forearm is not extended and can be perceived as in a normal position, I've got nothing. (check 10-6-1)

ChuckElias Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:21am

Quote:

Originally posted by psychobat
I'm new to this board and have a question.
Welcome to the board!! Although, I'm not really sure we need another psycho around here :)

Quote:

He never pushed off with the forearm but I saw it as an advantage for the offense so I called a player control foul on the dribbler? Was I correct in doing so?
If there's no contact, I don't think you can make a case for the PC. Indy-ref mentions "extending" as noted in 10-6-1; but in that rule, it says that you can't "impede" an opponent by extending. If there's no contact, then the dribbler really hasn't impeded the defender.

Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul. So to answer your question directly, I don't think that you were correct to call the PC foul.

In the past, what I have done in a JH game, was that I mentioned to the coach that if the extended arm made contact, there might be a foul. Coach was grateful for the info and immediately coached her point guard on not "leading" with the arm. That might not be appropriate in every JH game, but it worked for me that night.

I hope you're not losing sleep about the call, but it's good that you found the forum. Have a great season.

Dan_ref Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:30am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by psychobat
I'm new to this board and have a question.
Welcome to the board!! Although, I'm not really sure we need another psycho around here :)

Speaking of that, JR's been scarce lately.

Quote:


Quote:

He never pushed off with the forearm but I saw it as an advantage for the offense so I called a player control foul on the dribbler? Was I correct in doing so?
If there's no contact, I don't think you can make a case for the PC. Indy-ref mentions "extending" as noted in 10-6-1; but in that rule, it says that you can't "impede" an opponent by extending. If there's no contact, then the dribbler really hasn't impeded the defender.

Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul. So to answer your question directly, I don't think that you were correct to call the PC foul.

In the past, what I have done in a JH game, was that I mentioned to the coach that if the extended arm made contact, there might be a foul. Coach was grateful for the info and immediately coached her point guard on not "leading" with the arm. That might not be appropriate in every JH game, but it worked for me that night.

I hope you're not losing sleep about the call, but it's good that you found the forum. Have a great season.
As in most things concerning basketball I agree with Chuck. Baseball, on the other hand...

btw, I'll add that this move & "the hug" by defenders seem pretty common at the jh level. Just tell them to stop.

RookieDude Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:45am

Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

RD

psychobat Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:46am

Thanks for all responses. There was contact made between the dribbler and the defender but the dribbler did not use the arm to push the defender away, he just held it there as a barrier. He had one it before but there was no contact so I let it go then.

ChuckElias Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Dan_ref Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:54am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Well, I actually called one in a scrimmage the other night... :o

RookieDude Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:57am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Still shaking the rust off...wasn't there a new rule last year that stated we don't have to call non-contact swinging elbows technical fouls anymore?...we can just call them personal fouls?

RD

[Edited by RookieDude on Nov 14th, 2003 at 10:08 AM]

Dan_ref Fri Nov 14, 2003 10:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Still shaking the rust off...wasn't there a new rule last year that stated we don't have to call non-contact swinging elbows technical fouls anymore?...we can just call them personal fouls?

RD

Violations, not fouls. It's in rule 9.

ChuckElias Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:05am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Well, I actually called one in a scrimmage the other night... :o
Oh, I can just hear Edgar's response now. . . :D

RookieDude Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Still shaking the rust off...wasn't there a new rule last year that stated we don't have to call non-contact swinging elbows technical fouls anymore?...we can just call them personal fouls?

RD

Violations, not fouls. It's in rule 9.

Sheesh...really gotta get my b-ball hat back on...thanks!;)

RD

Dan_ref Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Quote:

originally posted by ChuckElias
Bottom line is that you must have contact to call a personal foul.
Really? ;)

Really. (See the definition of "personal foul", 4-19-1.) Are you thinking of a personal foul that does not involve contact?

Still shaking the rust off...wasn't there a new rule last year that stated we don't have to call non-contact swinging elbows technical fouls anymore?...we can just call them personal fouls?

RD

Violations, not fouls. It's in rule 9.

Sheesh...really gotta get my b-ball hat back on...thanks!;)

RD

We're all doing it now ;)

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri Nov 14, 2003 11:09am

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Well, I actually called one in a scrimmage the other night... :o
Oh, I can just hear Edgar's response now. . . :D


Cartoto?

Camron Rust Fri Nov 14, 2003 02:01pm

Quote:

Originally posted by psychobat
Thanks for all responses. There was contact made between the dribbler and the defender but the dribbler did not use the arm to push the defender away, he just held it there as a barrier. He had one it before but there was no contact so I let it go then.
That would be a foul if it stopped the defender from getting to the ball.


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