Kicking

[bwbuddy]

Does kicking of the ball by the defense have to be intentional to be a violation? Does it have to be a true kick, or just any deflection off of the foot? Are there any violations for kicking of ball by the offense?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by bwbuddy
Does kicking of the ball by the defense have to be intentional to be a violation? Does it have to be a true kick, or just any deflection off of the foot? Are there any violations for kicking of ball by the offense?

Under nfhs & ncaa rules kicking by the defense or offense must be an intentional act. I suppose under fiba it needs to be the metric equivalent of intentional...?

[ocreferee]

NFHS Rule 4-29 "Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with the knee or any part of the leg or foot below the knee"

NCAA Rule 4-42-1 "Kicking the ball is striking it intentionally with any part of the leg or the foot."

If the foot is off the ground then I have an intentional act, and therefore a kick. I never penalize the defense for being in good guarding position with the foot on the floor.

[Edited by ocreferee on Nov 13th, 2003 at 11:20 AM]

[tharbert]

Yes, it has to be intentional. And it's not necessarily kicking, it's striking the ball with any part of the leg from the knee down. If A1 accidentally dribbles the ball off his own foot and keeps going, there is no kicking violation. It makes no difference whether the violator is defense or offence.
I also read in the NCAA manual where grasping the ball between your knees is also "kicking." I wonder who came up with that one... And I think their definition includes the leg as the whole, not just from the knee down.

[Edited by tharbert on Nov 13th, 2003 at 11:23 AM]

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Yes the defender must intentionally move his leg/foot into the path of the ball - an act of defense.

However a poorly thrown pass against a leg that is not moving is just that - a poorly thrown pass and now a loose ball.

Sorry coach the defense did nothing wrong. You just made a bad pass.

[Bobby]

FIBA Article 22:

Art. 22 How the ball is played
22.1 In basketball, the ball is played with the hand(s) only.
22.2 To run with the ball, deliberately kick or block it with any part of the leg or strike it with the fist is a violation.
22.3 To accidentally come into contact or touch the ball with the foot or leg is not a violation.

[tomegun]

Originally posted by ocreferee
NFHS Rule 4-29 "Kicking the ball is intentionally striking it with the knee or any part of the leg or foot below the knee"

NCAA Rule 4-42-1 "Kicking the ball is striking it intentionally with any part of the leg or the foot."

If the foot is off the ground then I have an intentional act, and therefore a kick. I never penalize the defense for being in good guarding position with the foot on the floor.

[Edited by ocreferee on Nov 13th, 2003 at 11:20 AM]

Are you really going to make this call based on the foot being off the ground?

[mick]

Originally posted by ocreferee

If the foot is off the ground then I have an intentional act, and therefore a kick.

If a player is running away from a pass (not looking at the ball) and inadvertently gets hit on a foot off the floor by a pass, batt, or deflection, the rules do not allow you to call a *kick*.

You may want to rethink your stand.
mick

[NCAAREF]

I think you will find that the NCAA does not consider "holding the ball bertween the knees or legs" as a kick. I don't have the rule book with me, but it does state regarding this play, that although holding the ball between the legs or knees is not a kick, it does constitute an unfair advantage and thus should be called a violation. Now the question is if you were to call it, what's the signal and what's the call?

[ocreferee]

Ahh... thanks for the corrections, and the chance to see more plays then the one I did yesterday sitting in my office. When I made my comment about the foot being on the floor I thought only of DownTown's play

However a poorly thrown pass against a leg that is not moving is just that - a poorly thrown pass and now a loose ball.

I thank all of you for opening my eyes to the plays I didn't think of. That's what I love about this board!
OCREFEREE

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by NCAAREF
... although holding the ball between the legs or knees is not a kick, it does constitute an unfair advantage and thus should be called a violation. Now the question is if you were to call it, what's the signal and what's the call?

The mind boggles...

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by NCAAREF

I don't have the rule book with me, but it does state regarding this play, that although holding the ball between the legs or knees is not a kick, it does constitute an unfair advantage and thus should be called a violation.

Gotta admit, this is a new one on me.

Can you find the rule, a.r., bulletin, memo, whatever?

[NCAAREF]

Take a look on page BR-76, Rule 4.42, reference A.R.30.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by NCAAREF
Take a look on page BR-76, Rule 4.42, reference A.R.30.

Well I'll be! That's new this year, and about time!

And imagine being so tricky and sticking it right under the definition of kicking where we can't find it!

Thanks!

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Well I'll be! That's new this year, and about time!

And imagine being so tricky and sticking it right under the definition of kicking where we can't find it!

Thanks!

It's new in the book this year, but it was issued as an interp last year -- it might still be on the NCAA website.