Another LA study guide question. A fumble and a muff are methods of losing player control. True or false. I think the fumble is cut and dried, but I have yet to find the exact definition of a muff. My understanding is that this is a failure to catch the ball cleanly, so my first thought was that on a muff this player never had control. However it was suggested that this could apply to a player who was catching the ball to end a dribble, in which case it would end player control. The way I see it this has no bearing anywhere except on the test, but this is true of many other questions as well. I entertain opinions on this subject, and hopefully some solid documentation that we have overlooked.

My first inclination was to put in a response that, as moderator, I'd immediately have to censor. ;)

I think the dribble issue is best described as an "interrupted dribble", not as a "muff", but I agree the term isn't defined, so the "correct" answer will depend on the efinition used by test maker.

Now Bobby, as moderator you need to be a good boy!

Sure do miss your old comments. :(

You are right on definitions.

SECTION 21 FUMBLE
A fumble is the accidental loss of player control when the ball unintentionally drops or slips from a player’s grasp.

No rulebook definition of muff, but it seems like the same thing to me.

Bob, I don't think that a fumble or muff is an interrrupted dribble. A fumble that gets away from the dribbler could have all of the same rules aplied to it, with the exception that a fumble on a dribble pick-up cannot be followed by more dribbling. And I think a muff is a failure to catch a ball cleanly, although there is no basis for my opinion!

Are you sure you're using a study guide for basketball? When used together, "fumble" and "muff" are football terms, and are used to decide what happens on a dropped punt or kickoff.

BTW - what's the "LA Study Guide" anyway?

You're too modest.

Casebook play 9.1SIT= "<i>A1, at the free throw line to attempt a free throw (a) <b>muffs</b> the ball from an official and it rolls forward; or (b)accidentally drops the ball before the throwing notion is started.</i>"

Sounds like (a) is a muff and (b) is a fumble.

Just lucky.

Bob Jenkins knows what a **** is. He just
 

won't tell.

As concerns the NFHS world, there is only the fumble. Perhaps 'muff' is creole for fumble.

The term "muff" is used in the casebook play that I gave above. The NFHS also uses it in another casebook play- 4.43.SitA- "<i>A1 attempts to catch the ball while running rapidly. A1 <b>muffs</b> the ball, but succeeds in securing it before it strikes the floor</i>".

Looks like "muff" and "fumble" may be interchangeable in the NFHS world.

I just saw that . . . I can't remember
 

how far back it goes. I'd rather they'd stick to one word for 'fails to control or unintentionally loses control of the ball, where no contact with the ball by the defense and no foul is involved'. Is that a 'fumble'?

Actually, your language could apply to a fumble or an interrupted dribble, two separate ways you can unintentionally lose control of the basketball. The fumble definition refers to grasp, i.e., two hands on ball.

I agree that "muff" as used in case book seems to be a loose way of saying fumble -- essentially an undefined term replacing a defined term. Bad thing to do in the rules. If muff has a distinct meaning, define it. If not, use fumble for consistency.

Perhaps:
Fumble implies having had the ball.
Muff implies touching, but never having had the ball.

mick