The Official Forum - Jump Ball Basket: 2 or 3 pts?

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Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I'd say 4-3-1 covers it - "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball." - when B1 grabs the ball after the basket, team A gets the arrow.

Mark,
Like I said I have a friend that had this happen in a game, so I have thought about it for a while. He and I concluded that a part (d) is necessary.

The play is not as simple as you make it seem.
For example, what if the five players on Team B are so stunned and confused by the ball going through the basket that none of them go over and get the ball. The astute official sees the ball is available to them and starts a five second count. He then reaches five and calls the violation. Now who will be the first to secure the ball of the jump?
So do you still think that 4-3-1 covers it?

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I'd say 4-3-1 covers it - "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball." - when B1 grabs the ball after the basket, team A gets the arrow.

Mark,
Like I said I have a friend that had this happen in a game, so I have thought about it for a while. He and I concluded that a part (d) is necessary.

The play is not as simple as you make it seem.
For example, what if the five players on Team B are so stunned and confused by the ball going through the basket that none of them go over and get the ball. The astute official sees the ball is available to them and starts a five second count. He then reaches five and calls the violation. Now who will be the first to secure the ball of the jump?
So do you still think that 4-3-1 covers it?

Yup.

In a situation like this, I'm stopping play (b/c I can guarantee that the table is going to be leaning on the horn), explaining the situation to both coaches and the table, and then putting the ball in play.

Even if you call the 5 second violation on B, R6-3-1 will now cover the play when you give the ball to A OOB for the violation- i.e. "<i>Control may also be established by the results of a violation or foul, as in 4-3</i>".

The play's covered in the existing rules. No need to make up new ones.

Yup.

In a situation like this, I'm stopping play (b/c I can guarantee that the table is going to be leaning on the horn), explaining the situation to both coaches and the table, and then putting the ball in play.

I agree with Mark, if this happens let everyone catch there breath, explain what's happened to the table and coaches, then play on.
Barry

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Dexter

I'd say 4-3-1 covers it - "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball." - when B1 grabs the ball after the basket, team A gets the arrow.

Mark,
Like I said I have a friend that had this happen in a game, so I have thought about it for a while. He and I concluded that a part (d) is necessary.

The play is not as simple as you make it seem.
For example, what if the five players on Team B are so stunned and confused by the ball going through the basket that none of them go over and get the ball. The astute official sees the ball is available to them and starts a five second count. He then reaches five and calls the violation. Now who will be the first to secure the ball of the jump?
So do you still think that 4-3-1 covers it?

Yup.

In a situation like this, I'm stopping play (b/c I can guarantee that the table is going to be leaning on the horn), explaining the situation to both coaches and the table, and then putting the ball in play.

Even if you call the 5 second violation on B, R6-3-1 will now cover the play when you give the ball to A OOB for the violation- i.e. "<i>Control may also be established by the results of a violation or foul, as in 4-3</i>".

The play's covered in the existing rules. No need to make up new ones.

1. I don't agree with stopping the game just because something unusual has happened. The rules do not permit the officials to stop the game whenever they want to explain something. You need to simply continue to officiate the game, not stop it and interfere. If there is a violation or a foul or some other stoppage like a TO and you want to use that period to explain something, fine. But don't create a stoppage solely for the purpose of explaining.

2. I sincerely believe that it is a problem that the initial setting of the arrow would depend upon whether or not a player from the team that was scored upon goes over and picks up the ball. This seems so arbitrary.

After the goal we have a dead ball, and I think that the procedure for setting the arrow in this case should be consistent with how the arrow is set after a dead ball in the other cases covered in article 3. Specifically, it should be set when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower. This means that after Team A scores and the ball is at the disposal of Team B, the arrow should be set toward the basket of Team A whether or not a player from Team B comes over and picks it up before a five second violation is called.
Afterall, we set the arrow in the three cases described in article 3 even if no one comes over and gets the ball and a 5-second violation occurs. Why should this be any different? Is it just because the clock is running?

PS JR, I'm not saying that you are incorrect. In fact, I think that you are right according to the rules as they are currently written. I just don't like the apparent inconsistency in how this dead ball is treated.
Since if a Team B player picks up the ball for the throw-in Team A gets a basket and the arrow, but if Team B violates, then Team A gets a basket and the ball, but not the arrow. I think it is illogical.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Nov 7th, 2003 at 07:55 AM]