Study question:
On the jump ball to start the game, A5 forcefully taps the ball toward his own basket. The ball rebounds off the backboard and into A's goal. Ruling: A5's goal counts for 2 pts.

We hashed this one out last night while studying for tomorrow nights test and couldn't agree on the answer. How about some insight from the old pros.
Thanks,
Barry

3 points if last touched by A5 outside the 3-point line. See casebook plays 5.2.1SitB & 5.2.1SitC(c).

I don't have my new rule books yet so don't quote my on this..... but somwhere down the line I thought that in order for it to count as 3 points.... It had to be a shot or an attempt or a try... however you want to say it. Would this explain your answer?

If I am not mistaken, this was changed last year or the year before to eliminate the judgment call about whether or not it was a shot. Therefore, now if the alley-oop from midcourt goes in untouched, it does count 3.

From casebook play 5.2.1SitC(c)- "<i>score three points since the legal <b>touch</b> by a teammate occured behind the three-point line</i>". From casebook play 5.2.1B- "<i>A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal</i>".

Like I will ever see that happen in a game.

-A bad pass going in the hoop yes. Tip of the jump ball? Whatever.

Here's a question I read last year but can't remember the answer. Ball is last touched by A1 behind the 3 point line bounces inside the line and then goes in the hoop. how many points? I don't think I will see this either but for a test what is the answer?

Here's a question I read last year but can't remember the answer. Ball is last touched by A1 behind the 3 point line bounces inside the line and then goes in the hoop. how many points? I don't think I will see this either but for a test what is the answer?

[/B][/QUOTE]Two points. The 3 point try ended when the try/touch/tap hit the floor. See the language in casebook play 5.1.1Sit for this one.

The jump ball going in is a tap . . .
 

and a tap is a try. 3 points.

Now for the AP arrow!
 

Another good question about this play would be: When is the AP arrow initially set and toward the basket of which team is it pointed?

I believe that a part (d.) needs to be added to 4-3-3 to cover this play.
I have thought about and I can testify that this play is possible because a friend of mine who has officiated for 20+ years once had a basket off the jump occur in one of his games. On that play the tapped ball hit the floor before going in, though.

Re: The jump ball going in is a tap . . .
 

Hmmm...I don't think so.

4-40-5
A tap for goal is the contacting of the ball with any part of a player's hand(s) in an attempt to direct the ball into his/her basket.


I don't see how we can consider a jump ball a "tap for goal."

But it is a 3 if it goes in per the rule JR quoted earlier.

Re: Now for the AP arrow!
 

I'd say 4-3-1 covers it - "A player secures control of the ball, as after the jump ball." - when B1 grabs the ball after the basket, team A gets the arrow.

I think that 4-3-3 also covers it well, and I'd be willing to use 2-3 to extrapolate that rule to a part d.

3 points and the arrow?
 

Sound a little perverse, don't it?

If anyone sees this during the season i wanna hear about it. But it must have happend to be in the rule book!

Mark,
Like I said I have a friend that had this happen in a game, so I have thought about it for a while. He and I concluded that a part (d) is necessary.

The play is not as simple as you make it seem.
For example, what if the five players on Team B are so stunned and confused by the ball going through the basket that none of them go over and get the ball. The astute official sees the ball is available to them and starts a five second count. He then reaches five and calls the violation. Now who will be the first to secure the ball of the jump?
So do you still think that 4-3-1 covers it?

I do.

Yup.

In a situation like this, I'm stopping play (b/c I can guarantee that the table is going to be leaning on the horn), explaining the situation to both coaches and the table, and then putting the ball in play.

Even if you call the 5 second violation on B, R6-3-1 will now cover the play when you give the ball to A OOB for the violation- i.e. "<i>Control may also be established by the results of a violation or foul, as in 4-3</i>".

The play's covered in the existing rules. No need to make up new ones.

Yup.

In a situation like this, I'm stopping play (b/c I can guarantee that the table is going to be leaning on the horn), explaining the situation to both coaches and the table, and then putting the ball in play.

I agree with Mark, if this happens let everyone catch there breath, explain what's happened to the table and coaches, then play on.
Barry

1. I don't agree with stopping the game just because something unusual has happened. The rules do not permit the officials to stop the game whenever they want to explain something. You need to simply continue to officiate the game, not stop it and interfere. If there is a violation or a foul or some other stoppage like a TO and you want to use that period to explain something, fine. But don't create a stoppage solely for the purpose of explaining.

2. I sincerely believe that it is a problem that the initial setting of the arrow would depend upon whether or not a player from the team that was scored upon goes over and picks up the ball. This seems so arbitrary.

After the goal we have a dead ball, and I think that the procedure for setting the arrow in this case should be consistent with how the arrow is set after a dead ball in the other cases covered in article 3. Specifically, it should be set when the ball is at the disposal of the thrower. This means that after Team A scores and the ball is at the disposal of Team B, the arrow should be set toward the basket of Team A whether or not a player from Team B comes over and picks it up before a five second violation is called.
Afterall, we set the arrow in the three cases described in article 3 even if no one comes over and gets the ball and a 5-second violation occurs. Why should this be any different? Is it just because the clock is running?

PS JR, I'm not saying that you are incorrect. In fact, I think that you are right according to the rules as they are currently written. I just don't like the apparent inconsistency in how this dead ball is treated.
Since if a Team B player picks up the ball for the throw-in Team A gets a basket and the arrow, but if Team B violates, then Team A gets a basket and the ball, but not the arrow. I think it is illogical.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Nov 7th, 2003 at 07:55 AM]