Diminutives at Work

[williebfree]

Wisconsin has circulated a flyer with its annual mailing of certification paperwork for the past several years. The flyer specifically addresses the choice of language to be used by the official. "Babe", "Hun", "Son", "Boy" and others of this nature are definitely on the prohibited list.

I keep it simple; interactions with players and coaches are professional. Have not had any troubles with that approach.

[zebraman]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

As far as "we don't ref girls or ladies or boys or men. We ref players", I'm sorry, but that guy has a stick up his butt. If you can't be polite and respectful by saying "gentlemen", then something is wrong. Seriously, what was that guy's beef? If you're not comfortable with it, then fine I guess. But "we don't ref girls or ladies or boys or men"? Um, yes we do. What's the point of refusing to recognize that?

[/i]

I didn't look, but I think I would have noticed if he had a stick up his butt. :-)

His point was that if it offends someone, try to find another way to do it. He did women's CC ball and had an experience where a coach asked him to not refer to her players as ladies. I think we all can figure out why "boy" might be offensive. I just know that using "players" for a group and the number for an individual shouldn't ever be a problem.

Z

[NICK]

When I toss ball for start of the game, I usually say "good luck gents or ladies, have a good game", then revert back to calling them by their numbers during the game

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by nine01c
I hate it when my partner has players lined up for foul shots and he goes through this obnoxious verbiage such as "One and one, let the ball hit the rim, ladies, play the ball on the missed shot, ladies, yada, yada, yada."

Hear! Hear! They know. Just throw the damn ball!

Originally posted by nine01c
I hate the instructions and I hate the "ladies" part.

Half agree. We have an old guy out here who retorts, "Oh, great, then I'll just go get a cup of coffee," when his partner tells the players to relax on the lane.
I object to the instructions, but don't mind the politeness.

I say, "Ladies, One and one," and then throw the ball.

Originally posted by nine01c
Usually these guys have a tedious captains' meeting that makes you want to gag with a spoon (Any teammate have asthma, diabetes, CRF, COPD, constipation?- give me a break).

Agreed.
And there's a valley girl expression I've not heard in a while!

[mick]

I only officiate the uniforms.
Each uniform has a name.
Each name has a color.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
I only officiate the uniforms.

mick, I totally understand your point. And I totally understand the point of the guy who says "we don't ref boys or men. . .". But the fact is that it's simply not true. The uniforms are just so much laundry. (Jerry Seinfeld used to do a great bit about rooting for sports teams based solely on the uniforms.) There are people, young men and women, in those uniforms; and it just seems silly to me to deny that. I know that my mantra is "the less said, the better", but as I said before, if we can't be polite, repectful and personable, then something is wrong. Just my opinion, of course.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

mick, I totally understand your point. And I totally understand the point of the guy who says "we don't ref boys or men. . .". But the fact is that it's simply not true. The uniforms are just so much laundry. (Jerry Seinfeld used to do a great bit about rooting for sports teams based solely on the uniforms.) There are people, young men and women, in those uniforms; and it just seems silly to me to deny that. I know that my mantra is "the less said, the better", but as I said before, if we can't be polite, repectful and personable, then something is wrong. Just my opinion, of course.

All I get outa your post is that it is not possible to say a number, a color in a pleasant manner, ...Hon.
mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by mick
All I get outa your post is that it is not possible to say a number, a color in a pleasant manner, ...Hon.

Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure that's not what I said. If you work anywhere else, it's polite to address a man with whom you're not completely familiar as "sir". What is so wrong with applying this same "polite-ness" to young people on the court?

Regardless of how you say it, they're not just uniforms, so why treat them that way? It just seems silly to me to be so strict as to prevent the most basic courtesy.

If a person isn't comfortable with that, then I suppose that's fine. But if I am comfortable with it, I find it odd that somebody would try to talk me out of it. As usual, just my opinion.

[mick]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Hmmmm, I'm pretty sure that's not what I said. If you work anywhere else, it's polite to address a man with whom you're not completely familiar as "sir". What is so wrong with applying this same "polite-ness" to young people on the court?

Regardless of how you say it, they're not just uniforms, so why treat them that way? It just seems silly to me to be so strict as to prevent the most basic courtesy.

If a person isn't comfortable with that, then I suppose that's fine. But if I am comfortable with it, I find it odd that somebody would try to talk me out of it. As usual, just my opinion.

I still don't know who is being impolite, or telling you, or anyone else, not to be polite. Color me gone.

[JRutledge]

I have said "ladies" or "gentlemen" for some time now. Not sure what else to say unless I am refering to a specific number. I have my own personal problems with the words "ladies" and "gentlemen," partly because they have a social significance that has a certain meaning. But I only do that when I am at the FT line and I say, "two shots gentlemen." I do not use that wording any other time. If I had a better word to use, I would. But I think these are the main things that people understand as being polite and being professional.

I would never call the players a "boy," for the obvious reasons. I think it is our job to always show some respect to the players until they do something that suggests that we have to be more stern.

Peace

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I have said "ladies" or "gentlemen" for some time now. Not sure what else to say unless I am refering to a specific number. I have my own personal problems with the words "ladies" and "gentlemen," partly because they have a social significance that has a certain meaning. But I only do that when I am at the FT line and I say, "two shots gentlemen." I do not use that wording any other time. If I had a better word to use, I would. But I think these are the main things that people understand as being polite and being professional.

I would never call the players a "boy," for the obvious reasons. I think it is our job to always show some respect to the players until they do something that suggests that we have to be more stern. Peace

Jeff, I was waiting to hear what you had to say. I appreciate your opinion, and of course, I would never, never, never call a player "boy." You are right about being polite and professional, and showing respect. Also correct is the time to be more stern.

I'm just thinking that there is also a time to be more familiar, although not too familiar. It seems like it might soften the situation a little.

What I have gained from all your responses, is this:

I'm going to try "sir" sometimes. I like the sound of that. I think that is less condescending than "son", although I think son sounds less patronizing (notice the male reference in this word) when it comes from a woman. But if some players are offended, "sir" is a good, respectful substitute.

But what is the female equivalent, "ma'am"? That doesn't sound good at all!! "Miss" doesn't work, either. Hm...

I'm also going to try Tony's "You know, ..." That may work well with the right tone of voice. Looking back, I realize that I mis-read Tony's post, as "You know, you're arms need to be straight up." THAT's what I'll try. I"m skipping the "partner" all together. I'm quite sure I could never make that work!

Thanks to all for this discussion. I appreciate airing the issue.

[Edited by rainmaker on Nov 2nd, 2003 at 05:04 PM]

[Dan_ref]

Guys, ladies, players, fellas, folks, buddy, pal, friend, partner, big guy, little guy, killer, shirt color and/or number, all work. Don't call a male player son, it's demeaning. I can't imagine anyone would call someone else "boy". Ever.

[Damian]

Not often, but when ligning up players at the free throw lane, I say something like we have 2 shots ladies or Let's line up for free throws men.

Sometimes it is how you say it. I always do with respect to the players and they seem to respond to that.

I don't do it when administering the free throws. I can understand the condesending tone of ladies this, and ladies that ....

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I can't imagine anyone would call someone else "boy". Ever.

Look here, boy......

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by rainmaker
"Miss" doesn't work, either. Hm...

Why not? I use it all the time in both basketball and soccer at the high school level, and have never had a hint of a problem.