IAABO Refresher Exam #17
 

Our IAABO Refresher Exam study group met last night. We could not come up with a consensus on question #17. We did not have access to an answer sheet, but were given a citation 4-42-5.

Note that unlike other similar questions in past years, the kick was by the throwin team.

#17 Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

What say you, and why?

What are the conditions that cause an AP throw-in to end?

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I say NO and here is why
Team A keeps the A/P arrow. Did Team A violate the Throw-in? No. Was the ball legally touched? No, it was kicked. Thus, DO NOT change the A/P arrow. The new Throw-in is from the result of the Kick violation. Team B will have the Throw-in at one of the 8 magic location (4 in the Front court, 4 in the Back court) based on the location of the kick violation.

What causes an AP throw-in to end, knowing that the AP arrow changes when an AP throw-in ends.

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The rule says "lost if the throw-in team violates", which they did via the kick. Loss of arrow.

Interesting. NCAAW specifically says "throw-in violation" (emphasis added):

Art. 2. The alternating-possession procedure starts when an official places
the ball at the disposal of a player for a throw-in� The alternating-possession
procedure ends and the arrow is reversed immediately when a passed ball legally
touches an inbounds player, when a player, who is located on the playing court,
touches and causes the ball to be out of bounds, or when the throw-in team
commits a throw-in violation�

Art. 7. The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in shall be
lost when the throw-in team violates the throw-in provisions� (See Rule 9-4�

I always thought it was the same. Did it change in NFHS?

ART. 6 . . . The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating-possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

The way it's worded to me means any violation by A loses the arrow. If NFHS said "committed a throw-in violation" or "violates the throw-in" it would be clearer if they intend for A to not lose the arrow here.

Throw In Ends ...
 

Kick By The Defensive Team ..
 

Note: These are kicks by the defensive team. The exam question asks about an alternating possession throwin kicked by the offensive team

Basketball Rules Interpretations 2016-17
SITUATION 11: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. After A1 releases the ball, B1 commits a kicking violation. RULING: A1’s throw-in has ended because of B1’s kicking violation. A new throw-in is awarded to Team A at the spot out-of-bounds nearest to where the kicking violation occurred. NOTE: Because the defensive team committed a violation during the alternating-possession throwin, the alternating-possession arrow is not switched.

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in. A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in in Team A's backcourt. Al's throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2's kicking violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating possession throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-pos-session throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered. When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A. (6-4-5)

Throwin Ends ...
 

More:

6-4 Alternating Possession
ART. 5 The direction of the possession arrow is reversed immediately after an alternating-possession throw-in ends. An alternating-possession throw-in ends when the throw-in ends as in 4-42-5.
ART. 6 The opportunity to make an alternating-possession throw-in is lost if the throw-in team violates. If either team fouls during an alternating possession throw-in, it does not cause the throw-in team to lose the possession arrow. If the defensive team commits a violation during the throw-in, the possession arrow is not switched.

4-42 Throw-In
ART. 5 . . . The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7.
c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

A1 Commits A Violation ...
 

Seek, and ye shall find. (Matthew 7:7)

Bingo!

6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)

Yes, the official is correct.

I will be interested to see what IAABO says. There seems to be a conflict between 4-42-5c ("throw-in violation" and 6-4-6 ("violation"). Given the clarity in other rules codes, I think 6-4-6 in in error and they out a word. ;)

You Gotta Fight For Your Right (Beastie Boys, 1986)
 

Agree.

There are always a few contoversial answers on the Refesher Exam every year.

Probably another year with a debate with my local intepreter.

The Plot Thickens ...
 

My buddy got 99/100, only one wrong.

He only received his score, the answer sheet has not yet been distributed to the rank and file.

We're pretty sure that he got a different question incorrect:

86) The Trail is responsible for signaling all three-point tries, regardless from whose PCA the try originates.

He answered yes, probably incorrrect due to this:

IAABO Mechanics Manual Page 270 Segment 6 Three Point Try Coverage
B. Only the official from whose PCA the try originates signals the three‑point try.

However:

17) Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

He answered no to this, and since he only got one wrong, probably #86, the correct answer to #17 must be his no answer.

So what's the correct answer, or is this a matter of IAABO carelessly omitting a single word, as already mentioned by bob jenkins?

Bittersweet ...
 

So, using my friend’s 99/100 as a clue (see previous post), and against my better judgment, I answered #17 as no and got 100/100.

So why do I not feel great, getting a 100% for the first time ever, going back forty-five years?

Not because I cheated, because we are encouraged to collaborate on the exam, I even attended the only available "live" study group (I hate Zoom meetings).

So why do I not feel great?

Because I honestly believe that the answer to #17 should have been yes.

Instead of standing up for what I believe to be right, I took the easy path to a 100%.

A bittersweet victory.

17) Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)

Without my friend's single wrong answer for #86 (corrected by me), I would not have gotten 100%.

Anybody have anything to say about question #17, my citation, or the IAABO yes answer?

"No" is the correct answer, imo.

I didn't even know the rule book had this wording issue until it was brought up here. I was always taught, and other codes agree, that it's only on a throw-in violation (not on any violation) that A loses the arrow.

Throwin Violaton ...
 

An addition of word "throwin" previous to the word "violation" in case play 6.4.5 SITUATION A would have been very helpful.

But it's not there right now, thus the current caseplay suggests a yes answer.

I'm not proud of myself, I should have answered yes, got one wrong, and used the caseplay to fight for my yes answer, which could have possibly led IAABO and the NFHS to a change the wording in future casebooks.

Is the phrase "throw-in violation" defined in the rulebook?

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Throwin Violations ...
 

Rule 9 Violations And Penalties
Rule 9 - Section 2
Throw-In Provisions
ART. 1 The thrower shall not leave the designated throw-in spot until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.
ART. 2 The ball shall be passed by the thrower directly into the court from out-of-bounds so it touches or is touched by another player (inbounds or out of bounds) on the court before going out of bounds untouched.
ART. 3 The thrown ball shall not be touched by a teammate of the thrower while the ball is on the out-of-bounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane, except as in 7-5-7.
ART. 4 Once the throw-in starts, the ball shall be released on a pass directly into the court before five seconds have elapsed.
ART. 5 The thrower shall not carry the ball onto the court.
ART. 6 The thrown ball shall not touch the thrower in the court before it touches or is touched by another player.
ART. 7 The thrown ball shall not enter the basket before it touches or is touched by another player.
ART. 8 The thrown ball shall not become lodged between the backboard and ring or come to rest on the flange before it touches or is touched by another player.
ART. 9 The thrower shall not be replaced by a teammate after the ball is at the thrower’s disposal, except as in 7-5-7.
ART. 10 The opponent(s) of the thrower shall not have any part of his/her person through the inbounds side of the throw-in boundary-line plane until the ball has been released on a throw-in pass.
NOTE: The thrower may penetrate the plane provided he/she does not touch the inbounds area or a player inbounds before the ball is released on the throw-in pass. The opponent in this situation may legally touch or grasp the ball.

I don't see mention of a throw-in ending in what was just posted.

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Throwin Ends ...
 

There has to be a difference between a throw-in ending and an AP throw-in ending or what causes the arrow to be switched.

The two latest citations posted don't account for the defensive team kicking the ball. It just says throw-in ends end when somebody touches the ball inbounds. Doesn't differentiate between legal and illegal touching.

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Confused In Connecticut ...
 

Agree that the actual NFHS rule language and the NFHS case plays don't seem to match.

Exactly forty years ago (has it been that long) when the alternating possession arrow was first introduced (before that all held ball situations were actually decided by jump balls at one of three different jump ball circles on the court) the original interpretation of a defensive kick on a throwin was that while the touch was an indeed an illegal touch, it was still nevertheless a touch that ended the throwin, and the arrow would be switched.

Soon after that the NFHS changed the interpretation and I’ve been confused ever since.

IAABO Manual ...
 

Therefore, officials are encouraged to use this book in conjunction with the current edition of the NFHS Basketball Rules Book and the NFHS Basketball Case Book and NOT in place of the NFHS Rules Book and NFHS Case Book that contain the full text of the NFHS basketball rules and NFHS interpretations.

While IAABO admits that the NFHS Rulebook and the NFHS Casebook are the ultimate authority regarding high school basketball rules, here's what the IAABO Manual (their own version of the NFHS Rulebook and the NFHS Casebook) has to say regarding this issue.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0d64294b_z.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...f1b19881c8.jpg

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...d485bcc8d9.jpg

Not A Throwin Violation ...
 

Bottom line: A defensive player, or an offensive player, kicking the ball during a throw in is not a throwin violation, it’s indeed a violation, but it’s not a throwin violation, thus the confusion, especially since:

4-42-5: The throw-in ends when:
a. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player inbounds.
b. The passed ball touches or is touched by another player out-of-bounds, except as in 7-5-7.
c. The throw-in team commits a throw-in violation.

Both IAABO and the NFHS need clarify this situation (kicked ball during a throwin), especially in regard to clarifying violations in general and the subset of throwin violations.

There used to be something called "floor violations". That was a long, long time ago that I last read about them.

If the rulebook no longer defines what constitutes a "throw-in violation", then we have to assume any violation by the offense committed before the throw-in ends is a throw-in violation.

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4-46. Don't see how it helps.

Throw-in violations (which are a sub-set of floor violations) are in 9-2.

Violations ...
 

Throwin Violations Listed...
 

Would You Like To Swing On A Star (Bing Crosby, Going My Way, 1944 ...
 

Swinging elbows excessively without contact could be a throwin violation?

I think it's fine the way it is unless you're going for unity with NCAA. For simplicity, is like it to say, any violation by the throw-in team loses the arrow, by the defense keep the arrow, fouls do not change the arrow. Trying to make it throw in only violations by the offense is harder to remember for newer officials. Older ones screw this up enough as it is

#17 is "no"
 

The confirmed correct answer to #17 is "No".

IAABO Versus NFHS Feud ...
 

#17 Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating-possession procedure. A-1’s throw-in is kicked by A-2. The official awards the ball to Team B and has the scorer turn the arrow toward Team B’s basket. Is the official correct?

No, as I answered correctly, but this says otherwise:

6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation. A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in ends. (6-4-4)