NCAA Men's Tournament Discussion (2025)

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by The_Rookie

What was #21 on Houston allowed to do after losing control of his dribble?

He didn't lose control of his dribble. He jumped and then dropped the ball when a defender closed out.

There was a play earlier in the game when the player jumped and fumbled the ball and he retrieved it.

So saying he lost control on that last play is inaccurate and is relevant to how the play is adjudicated.

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[Valley Man]

Raymond .. should have been a whistled for illegal dribble immediately correct?

Starting a dribble without a pivot foot to be exact

Doesnt matter if he touches it as the announcers say

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Raymond .. should have been a whistled for illegal dribble immediately correct?



Starting a dribble without a pivot foot to be exact



Doesnt matter if he touches it as the announcers say

That's a judgment call. For me, it would be whether or not there were any teammates close enough to turn it into a pass. Considering the situation last night, I feel they did the right thing by letting it play out. Though, it probably would have been better for Houston if they had been called for a violation so they could get another chance to foul Florida.

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[Valley Man]

I thought that looks like the exact same play from the National Semi .. he started a dribble.

I can see selling it as a pass, but man that is tough.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Raymond

He didn't lose control of his dribble. He jumped and then dropped the ball when a defender closed out ... saying he lost control on that last play is inaccurate and is relevant to how the play is adjudicated.

Originally Posted by Valley Man

... should have been a whistled for illegal dribble immediately ... Starting a dribble without a pivot foot to be exact. Doesn't matter if he touches it as the announcers say.

We've been having this debate (usually in regard to NFHS not NCAA rules) here on the Forum for as long as I've been a Forum member (2005).

Lots of odd things can happen once a player in control of the ball decides to become airborne.

Many of these situations are listed in my annual most misunderstood basketball rules list (a list that is not "certified" in any way by the NFHS, but it has been cross referenced with NFHS rules, NFHS casebook plays, and NFHS annual interpretations by me, and many other Forum members, many, many times for NFHS "accuracy" over the past twenty years).

If a defender puts a hand(s) on a ball controlled by a shooter (or passer) who is airborne, such that the airborne player is unable to release the ball, it is a held ball. If, in another similar situation, the airborne player loses control of the ball because of the touch, then this is simply a blocked shot. It is not a violation for that player to start a dribble at that point. If, in a similar situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne player chooses not to release the ball, and returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

When an airborne player tries for goal (or pass), sees that the try (or pass) will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and touches the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. If an airborne player is preparing to release the ball on a shot attempt (or pass), and instead of releasing the ball, fumbles the ball (while still in the air), drops the ball, and then returns to the floor and secures possession of the ball, it’s a traveling violation.

In the situation last night, one (though not all) can interpret this as a very legal but very ugly start of a very bad bounce pass.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

Raymond .. should have been a whistled for illegal dribble immediately correct?

Starting a dribble without a pivot foot to be exact

Doesnt matter if he touches it as the announcers say

How do you know it is a dribble until he clearly touches the ball again? It is a bad play, but also not a black and white situation IMO.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Valley Man

I thought that looks like the exact same play from the National Semi .. he started a dribble.



I can see selling it as a pass, but man that is tough.

If I'm remembering the play correctly from the semifinal, player dropped then retrieved the ball after it bounced.

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[Valley Man]

Excellent point!

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Raymond

So they don't call the immediate travel.

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I wouldn’t be surprised if we now get clarification on this from both the NCAA and NFHS.

In my opinion, there wasn’t a teammate nearby and that was clearly the start of a dribble necessitating an immediate whistle.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In my opinion, there wasn’t a teammate nearby and that was clearly the start of a dribble necessitating an immediate whistle.

While I respectfully and politely disagree with Nevadaref (I would call it the start of a very legal but very ugly, very bad bounce pass), his post does bring up a question in my mind.

If one believes that this is illegal because it's the start of a dribble, does one sound the whistle as soon as the ball is released, or wait until the ball hits the floor?

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

In my opinion, there wasn’t a teammate nearby and that was clearly the start of a dribble necessitating an immediate whistle.

While I respectfully and politely disagree with Nevadaref (I would call it the start of a very legal but very ugly, very bad bounce pass), his post does bring up another question in my mind.

Travel or illegal dribble?