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-   -   Disqualification Substitutes ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/106315-disqualification-substitutes.html)

BillyMac Mon Jan 27, 2025 11:04am

Closure ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1053496)
Also, I did not see if anyone submitted the below info in regard to the original post.

Thanks bucky. Great citation.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2fc5e0bd_b.jpg

"Say goodnight Gracie."

Raymond Mon Jan 27, 2025 12:13pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053497)
Thanks bucky. Great citation.



https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...2fc5e0bd_b.jpg



"Say goodnight Gracie."

Still doesn't address what is the only real question in this conversation: can other subs come in before the disqualified player is replaced?

Bucky's citation backs up what 95% of us already do.

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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Mon Jan 27, 2025 09:45pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1053499)
Still doesn't address what is the only real question in this conversation: can other subs come in before the disqualified player is replaced?

Bucky's citation backs up what 95% of us already do.

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As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.

MTD, Sr.

Raymond Mon Jan 27, 2025 09:56pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1053500)
As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.



MTD, Sr.

I've been saying that also. But Billy was saying his state or local IAABO chapter put out something saying you can bring other subs in first.

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BillyMac Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:00pm

IAABO Versus NFHS ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1053501)
Billy was saying his state or local IAABO chapter put out something saying you can bring other subs in first.

IAABO International told us to let them all in on our 2024-25 Refresher Exam.

26) B-1 fouls A-1, committing their fifth personal foul. While waiting for B-1’s replacement, A-6 and A-7 approach the table to enter the game. The official denies their entry, stating that A-6 and A-7 must wait and enter with B-1’s replacement. Was the official correct?

IAABO answer is "No". Reference cited for this question is 3-3-1-C.

On the IAABO International level, there was an IAABO representative (who edits our IAABO Refresher Exams questions and answers) on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee.

But not everyone belongs to IAABO, there are only 15,000 IAABO members and there are certainly a lot more basketball officials than that.

Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

BillyMac Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:05pm

Best Practice ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1053500)
As I have stated before: Hold all of the other Substitutes (A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.) that are already waiting to enter and then bring in the Substitute (B8) for the Disqualified Player (B1) first and then 1 nanosecond (1x10**-9 seconds) after B6 has been beckoned into the Game beckon in A6, A7, B6, B7, etc.

Is this a "best practice" (to which I agree) or an actual NFHS rule and/or and actual NFHS mechanic?

If so, a citation please.

bob jenkins Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053502)

Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

No. It (apparently) doesn't exist. Despite how many times you ask the question. Maybe next year.

BillyMac Tue Jan 28, 2025 12:31pm

Always Listen To bob ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053502)
Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1053504)
No. It (apparently) doesn't exist.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP._...=Api&P=0&h=180

Raymond Tue Jan 28, 2025 02:17pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053502)
IAABO International told us to let them all in on our 2024-25 Refresher Exam.

26) B-1 fouls A-1, committing their fifth personal foul. While waiting for B-1’s replacement, A-6 and A-7 approach the table to enter the game. The official denies their entry, stating that A-6 and A-7 must wait and enter with B-1’s replacement. Was the official correct?

IAABO answer is "No". Reference cited for this question is 3-3-1-C.

On the IAABO International level, there was an IAABO representative (who edits our IAABO Refresher Exams questions and answers) on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee.

But not everyone belongs to IAABO, there are only 15,000 IAABO members and there are certainly a lot more basketball officials than that.

Could somebody please post a current NFHS rule citation for holding some, or all, other substitutes until the replacement it made?

So IAABO didn't cite a rule that explicitly states other subs can come in first? The only thing stating that is that answer key for the quiz.

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BillyMac Wed Jan 29, 2025 09:28am

If It's Not Illegal, Then It's Legal ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1053506)
So IAABO didn't cite a rule that explicitly states other subs can come in first?

... nor does there appear to a NFHS citation explicitly stating that other subs cannot come in first.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1053506)
The only thing stating that is that answer key for the quiz.

... and my inquiries up the ladder beginning at the local and state level and eventually to the IAABO International interpreter who sat on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee and writes our IAABO Refresher Exam questions and answers.

Hey, it happened way back in late October, but let's remember that I used to be on Raymond's (and others) side until I got the question wrong on the exam and then, after much research and inquiry, switched teams.

Raymond Wed Jan 29, 2025 11:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1053507)
... nor does there appear to a NFHS citation explicitly stating that other subs cannot come in first.



... and my inquiries up the ladder beginning at the local and state level and eventually to the IAABO International interpreter who sat on the NFHS 2024-25 rules committee and writes our IAABO Refresher Exam questions and answers.

Hey, it happened way back in late October, but let's remember that I used to be on Raymond's (and others) side until I got the question wrong on the exam and then, after much research and inquiry, switched teams.

I think eventually you'll be on the wrong side of history once somebody at the NFHS or IAABO actually thinks this thing through.



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BillyMac Wed Jan 29, 2025 12:43pm

Make Disqualified Substitutions Great Again ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1053508)
I think eventually you'll be on the wrong side of history once somebody at the NFHS or IAABO actually thinks this thing through.

I certainly hope so. It was so easy back in the good old days. For over forty years we were locally told to not allow any substitutions, nor grant any timeout requests, until after the disqualified player had been replaced.

This allowed us to take care of business, the notifications to both the head coach and to the disqualified player, and then the timely replacement of the disqualified player, with no other distractions.


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