2024 NFHS Basketball Rules Questionnaire ...

[bob jenkins]

Works well in NCAAW. Applies to offense or defense. Give the signal when it happens, but don't stop play the first time. Report the warning at the next stoppage. On the second time, stop play and issue the T unless A has an immediate chance to score (or some similar words).

[ilyazhito]

I agree. This should also be the case in HS. At the same time, NCAAM initially had a warning for flopping, but that went away before the 2022-23 season. I'm willing to bet that the reason why NCAAM got rid of the warning is because they have 2 classes of technical fouls, not one, and thus felt that giving the player a lesser technical foul (Class B) with a lesser penalty (Class B technical fouls have one free throw) and resuming play from the point of interruption was enough of a deterrent.

NFHS does not have Class A/Class B for players, so making flopping a team technical foul might make officials more willing to call it. The alternative would be to introduce a Class B technical foul to NFHS, and reclassify lesser infractions, such as hanging on the ring, faking being fouled, and boundary infractions, as Class B technical fouls. That way, a player who receives a technical foul for faking and for unsportsmanlike conduct will not be immediately ejected, because the 2 technical fouls are not of the same severity.

[FlasherZ]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Works well in NCAAW. Applies to offense or defense. Give the signal when it happens, but don't stop play the first time. Report the warning at the next stoppage. On the second time, stop play and issue the T unless A has an immediate chance to score (or some similar words).

Thanks Bob. Curiously, the questionnaire refers to a "violation for faking being fouled (flopping)" which sent my mind questioning how they'd establish a violation (vs. the warning).

I guess I can see the value of a delayed warning as an option, how much would it be used beyond more informal "knock it off" verbals?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by FlasherZ

Thanks Bob. Curiously, the questionnaire refers to a "violation for faking being fouled (flopping)" which sent my mind questioning how they'd establish a violation (vs. the warning).

I guess I can see the value of a delayed warning as an option, how much would it be used beyond more informal "knock it off" verbals?

There is no established penalty for flopping now. I know people want to say there is, but show us the situation that suggests you call a T for a player diving on a shot? Exactly, you will not find such a reference. I think the question was to make this clear how to do something about flopping and use the right language or use the right examples.

Peace

[ilyazhito]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

There is no established penalty for flopping now. I know people want to say there is, but show us the situation that suggests you call a T for a player diving on a shot? Exactly, you will not find such a reference. I think the question was to make this clear how to do something about flopping and use the right language or use the right examples.

Peace

Exactly. I have gotten flack in the past for calling faking being fouled, but I have not had any other valid options to address this play within the parameters of NFHS rules. Calling a block on block/charge plays with the defender faking is a solution, but it is an unsatisfactory one when there is no contact and the defender just sits down to fool the officials.

I do hope that the NFHS will find an actual way to address flopping, because it has trickled down, but officials are reluctant to address it using the tools they have. I understand them, because calling a technical foul per the rulebook is a rather harsh solution, especially on the 1st offense.

[MechanicGuy]

Originally Posted by ilyazhito

Exactly. I have gotten flack in the past for calling faking being fouled, but I have not had any other valid options to address this play within the parameters of NFHS rules. Calling a block on block/charge plays with the defender faking is a solution, but it is an unsatisfactory one when there is no contact and the defender just sits down to fool the officials.

I do hope that the NFHS will find an actual way to address flopping, because it has trickled down, but officials are reluctant to address it using the tools they have. I understand them, because calling a technical foul per the rulebook is a rather harsh solution, especially on the 1st offense.

In my experience, the majority of "flopping" cases in HS are just a young player not knowing how to take a charge/being afraid of the contact, etc. They usually aren't "trying to fool us" so much as they're trying to do what their coach wants of them without getting hurt lol.

If an official is getting fooled by a player "sitting down" I don't think I want that same official to be judging what is and isn't a flop.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by MechanicGuy

In my experience, the majority of "flopping" cases in HS are just a young player not knowing how to take a charge/being afraid of the contact, etc. They usually aren't "trying to fool us" so much as they're trying to do what their coach wants of them without getting hurt lol.

If an official is getting fooled by a player "sitting down" I don't think I want that same official to be judging what is and isn't a flop.

All flopping is not block-charge type of play. And I see a lot of players trying to fool us. It is clear in the games and clear on the tape. What is with all the "head bobbing" on drives or flailing during jump shots with almost no contact?

That is why there needs to be more to whatever the rules says, because there are other acts that are flopping that are not block-charge plays.

I had a play where the kid not only flopped on a block-charge play, he pulled his legs together to make sure the ball handler fell. That is why I called a block on his behind and did not care what reaction I got.

Peace

[bas2456]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Works well in NCAAW. Applies to offense or defense. Give the signal when it happens, but don't stop play the first time. Report the warning at the next stoppage. On the second time, stop play and issue the T unless A has an immediate chance to score (or some similar words).

Is the eventual T charged to the player or just the team?

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bas2456

Is the eventual T charged to the player or just the team?

Generally, team (there is an exception for a video review for an I or DQ foul).

https://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4...ules-book.aspx