Step Out Of Bounds ...
 

I know that we’ve already gone over this, but it was a small part of a long thread on all the rule changes and I wanted to make a single thread about it.

My local new rules meeting isn’t until Wednesday, October 18, 2023.

I was officiating an odd autumn in-district interscholastic middle school game last week. Since we haven’t had our local new rules meeting yet, nor have the coaches, we were told to only use the new bonus rule (fifth of quarter) and no other new rules (at least not until after our meeting).

At halftime, my partner, who wasn't aware of any of the rule changes, asked what they were. I quickly went through the list and then when I came to the new rule regarding stepping out of bounds I hesitated and stumbled, realizing that I really didn't understand the new rule.

2023-24 NFHS Basketball Rule Change

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation. Rationale: Allows a player to step out of bounds if they gain no advantage and penalizes a team only if they gain an advantage by leaving the court and returning to avoid a violation or to be the first to touch the ball.

9-3-3: Establishing that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation allows the game to continue without stoppage when the player’s actions did not create an advantage. When an advantage is gained by a player purposely leaving the court and being the first one to touch the ball or leaving the court to avoid a violation, an advantage is gained, and a violation has occurred.

Why the rule change?

Why wait for the touch inbounds?

We already have this rule:

9-3-3: A player must not leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

Or has it been deleted and replaced by above?

If a player sneaks off the court (maybe trying to blend in with his bench) we can call the 9-3-3 violation as soon as we realize that he’s gained an advantage, and don’t have to wait for a ball touch inbounds. The player left the court for an unauthorized reason and gained an advantage. Violation!

Now if a player leaves the court due to his momentum, an authorized reason, and comes back and is the first to ball touch inbounds, that’s a still legal? Right?

I’d like to get this new rule straight in my mind before our local meeting so I know to ask pertinent questions.

In the earlier thread, JRutledge was kind enough to post the NCAA rule for comparison.

NCAA Rule Section 3 Player Out of Bounds

Art. 1. A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court has committed a violation.
a. A violation has not been committed when a player, who steps out of
bounds as permitted by Rule 7-4.6.b, does not receive the pass along the
end line from a teammate and is the first to touch the ball after returning to the playing court.
b. A player whose momentum causes that player to go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if that player reestablishes one foot inbounds prior to touching the ball.

NFHS Caseplays Player Out Of Bounds Leaving The Court

9.3.3 SITUATION A: A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket. RULING: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court for an unauthorized reason. (9-3-3)

9.3.3 SITUATION B: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen. RULING: The official shall call a violation on A3 as soon as he/she steps out of bounds. The ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred.

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

The rule you posted has been replaced with this new rule.

NFHS being Silly NFHS. Now we have the situation where 9.3.3 B where you have L observing the player going OOB now has to know when the pass was released from an area where normally they shouldn't be looking or might not even be able to see at all.

Only reason I can think of for the change is it was being called too much or wrongly. Don't know if this will reduce the amount of times it is called but I can guarantee it would be called .much more wrongly that it will be called correctly.

More Thoughts ...
 

If the "old" 9-3-3 has been deleted, does that mean that this situation (below) is now legal if A3 is not the first to touch the ball?

A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have his/her defender detained by the double screen.

And that this situation (below) is still illegal?

A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's basket.

Replaced ...
 

Thanks.

I never had any problems with the old rules.

The "momentum" rule was easy to enforce by ignoring.

Note: Unlike the NCAA, the NFHS doesn't mention "momentum".

Does that mean that we now have to call it if the "momentum" out of bounds player is the first to touch the ball after back in bounds? Has he gained an advantage if allowed to do so?

I've only observed the "going out of bounds to use a screen" rule called once in forty-four years. Never called it myself.

On a "going out of bounds to use a screen" situation, do we now have to wait for the first to touch the ball after back in bounds to call the violation?

It looks like the "avoid three seconds" rule is still in place.

Thank God for small favors.

NFHS rule uses "own volition".

ART. 3 . . . A player shall not step out of bounds under the player's own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court or to avoid a violation. PENALTY:

It matches it yup with the college rule and it's easy to enforce. And, imo, it's more fitting -- the old rule wasn't called because A didn't really gain an advantage if no one passed them the ball.

Yes and Yes. The second case (no matter where it might be posted) is a three-second violation case, not a "going out of bounds" violation case.

Thank You ...
 

Thanks and thanks.

Changes (David Bowie, 1971) ...
 

I've changed my Misunderstood Basketball Rules list.

A player who steps out of bounds under the player's own volition and then becomes the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court and has gained an advantage has committed a violation. A player whose momentum causes that player to accidentally go out of bounds may be the first to touch the ball inbounds if an advantage is not gained and such player immediately returns inbounds. That player must have something in, and nothing out. It is not necessary to have both feet back inbounds.

And I've deleted this from the list: It is a violation for a player to intentionally leave the court for an unauthorized reason.

But we still have this:

It is a technical foul for a player to leave the playing court for an unauthorized reason to demonstrate resentment, disgust, or intimidation. It is a technical foul for a player to purposely or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

Everything sound "kosher" now?

Sneaky Pete ...
 

So it such a player is the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, this is a violation.

But if such a player is not the first to touch the ball after returning inbounds, it's legal.

I dont have my new case books with me today, but this case play

9.3.3 SITUATION C: A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 intentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight. RULING: B3 is called for a leaving-the-floor violation. Team A will receive the ball out of bounds at a spot nearest to where the violation occurred. Since the violation is on the defense, the ball does not become dead until the try has ended. If the try is successful, it will count. (6-7-9 Exception d)

Has been changed to being one situation with A/B/C plays once of which is made try ignore B3 going out of bounds, one that is B3 is first to touch the missed try and it is a violation:eek:

I'm having trouble deciphering your last sentence.

These are the new caseplays

PLAYER OUT OF BOUNDS – LEAVING THE COURT
9.3.3 SITUATION A:
A1 receives a pass while in the restricted area of the three-second lane. A1 passes the ball to A2 outside the three-point line. In order to get the three-second count stopped, A1 steps directly out of bounds under A's bas- ket.
RULING: A1 is charged with a violation for leaving the court to avoid a violation.

9.3.3 SITUATION B:
A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. A3 inten- tionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to have the defender detained by the double screen. (a) A3 receives a pass as soon as A3 re-enters the court; (b) A3 does not receive a pass and play continues.
RULING: In (a), the official shall call a violation on A3 as soon as A3 catches the pass. The ball is awarded to Team B at a designated spot nearest to where the violation occurred. In (b), no violation has occurred and play continues.

9.3.3 SITUATION C:
A1 and A2 set a double screen near the end line. B3 in- tentionally goes out of bounds outside the end line to avoid being detained by A1 and A2. Just as B3 goes out of bounds, A3's try is in flight.
RULING: No violation for the defense leaving the court to avoid a screen unless B3 is the first player to touch the ball when returning to the court.

Thanks .. I should not have tried to answer shutting my computer down and leaving

I had just skimmed the casebook, but as you can see even rebounding a player cannot go out of bounds intentionally and be the first to touch the ball

Not correct.

The violation for being the first to touch happens when a player leaves trying to avoid a screen, or making a too-wide cut along the baseline, etc -- the stuff that happens ten times a season.

It's still a T to leave to hide among the bench, or to go out one door and enter another or ... -- the stuff that happens less than once per officiating career.

Technical Foul ...
 

It is a technical foul for a player to purposely or deceitfully delay returning after legally being out of bounds.

I usually think of this rule involving an inbounder deceitfully delaying his return inbounds to gain some type of advantage, but other "odd" things can occur that can also be penalized with a technical foul.

First To Touch The Ball ???
 

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court or if they left the court to avoid a violation.

A2 runs out of bounds around a double screen and comes back onto the court and catches a pass from A1 ...

A) A1 was holding (touching) the ball after A2 reentered the playing court.

B) A1's pass was already on the way (released) after A2 reentered the playing court.

Legal in A, illegal in B?

First to touch?

Both a violation.

The way I understood the interpreters presentation the other day A would be legal.

Win, Place, Show ...
 

Wouldn't A2 be the second to touch the ball after returning to the court?

Wouldn't A1 be the first to touch the ball the ball after A2 returned to the court?

Under your logic the rule would only apply if A2 came inbounds when no other player has PC.

The point of that particular element of the rule is to prevent A1 passing to A2 after A2 returns inbounds.

Purpose And Intent ...
 

Gotta agree with you but that's not what the rule states.

This certainly would be illegal.

9-3-3: Establishes that a player may step out of bounds without penalty unless they are the first player to touch the ball after returning to the court ...

I've got lot of questions regarding the wording of this new rule.

Hopefully some new casebook plays (I haven't gotten my new casebook yet), or new annual interpretations (due soon) will clear this up.

I am not sure what you mean by "interpreters predeythr" but in A it is legal if the never throw the ball to the player or throw it to another player first.

Peace

Or to prevent a player to go out of bounds and get a loose ball. Not as common but both situations fit under this rule.

Peace

First ???
 

Agree.

Who was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court?

A1 was the first to touch the ball after A2 reentered the playing court (he was touching it after A2 reentered the playing court before he passed it to A2).

9-3-3: A player shall not step out of bounds under the player’s own volition and then become the first player to touch the ball after returning to the playing court ...

Perhaps we should refer to A1 as "Player Zero"?

Is there an ordinal number for zero?

A1 was not the first to touch the ball. They had the ball already.

Peace

Simple Highly Rational Thoughtful Explanation ...
 

Thanks JRutledge.

I really like your simple, yet highly rational and thoughtful, explanation.

Hopefully we'll get some new casebook plays, or new annual interpretations (due soon), to clear this up.

https://hosting.photobucket.com/imag...Case_plays.png

Peace

In my 18 years of officiating men's college basketball, I may have made that call 5 times. I wouldn't obsess about it.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I had my first scrimmage last night of the season and I had an offensive player run out of bounds on his own and come back in, it was not a violation because they passed the ball to someone else.

Peace

Either your interpreter or your understanding of what was said is incorrect.

Do we have a zero person now? How long does A2 have to be in bounds with A1 holding the ball for him to A2 to legally touch the pass?

Until the shot clock runs out? Oh wait...

I could swear I remember a time when NCAA-Men's would have the Lead stick out their arm similar to a delayed violation on free throws.

The Pelican State ...
 

From LHSOA Basketball Officials Training 2023-24 NFHS Rules Changes video:

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...0b775a9c_m.jpg

Image too small to make out what it says.

Sorry ...
 

Best I can do.

Here's the entire LHSOA Basketball Officials Training 2023-24 NFHS Rules Changes video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/aw5bnR3j7YY?si=3M0Xm5NqmESwFwzD" title="YouTube video player" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; clipboard-write; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture; web-share" allowfullscreen></iframe>