0 And 00 Identical ???

[BillyMac]

Debate yesterday on Greg Austin's A Better Official Basketball Rules Expert live You Tube show.

Regarding penalties and time frames (statute of limitations), are 0 and 00 treated the same as identical numbers?

I believed (past tense) that they were treated as one in the same.

3.2.2 SITUATION B: Three minutes before the game starts, it is discovered (b) two Team B team members are wearing the same number. RULING: In (b), a technical foul is charged to Team B upon discovery of the identical numbers. Only one team member may wear a given number; the other must change to a number not already in use before participating. (10-1-2)

10-1-2-E: After the 10-minute time limit specified in Article 1: Have identical numbers on team members and/or players. Penalty: (Art. 2) One foul only per team regardless of the number of infractions. (Art. 2e) Penalized when discovered. Head coach does not lose the privilege of the coaching box.

3-4-3-D: A team member list must not have both numbers 0 and 00.

However, a fourteen year old one and done annual interpretation was cited that stated otherwise.

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: A team has members with No. 0 and No. 00 listed in the scorebook and it is discovered (a) with 14 minutes on the clock prior to the game, (b) with 8 minutes on the clock prior to the game or (c) after the game starts. RULING: In (a), changes can be made without penalty. In (b), if a number is changed in the scorebook, a team technical is charged. The offended team is awarded two free throws and a throw-in at the division line to begin the game. The arrow is toward the offending team. If no changes are made to the scorebook, no infraction has occurred. In (c), after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates. If the second team member wishes to participate, the result is an illegal number when "discovered." The penalty is a direct technical foul on the head coach for an illegal uniform. Two free throws and a division line throw-in for the offended team and loss of coaching box privileges for the offending coach. The second team member (with the illegal uniform number) may participate without further penalty and is NOT required to change his/her number. Another possibility exists after the game starts when one of the team members wants to change his/her number prior to participating. The result is a team technical foul (no loss of coaching box) for changing the scorebook. COMMENT: No team should have both No. 0 and No. 00 on its regular roster. The infraction is likely due to bringing a player up or down a level. Therefore, it is possible the team has access to other legal uniforms to replace a uniform with an illegal number. (3-4-3d; 10-1-2; 10-5-4)

Comments please.

[JamesBCrazy]

0 is not 00; they are two different numbers. You simply can't have both 0 and 00 play.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JamesBCrazy

You simply can't have both 0 and 00 play.

... and you can't even have both 0 and 00 listed in the scorebook.

3-4-3-D: A team member list must not have both numbers 0 and 00.

Or can you?

There appears to be no penalty if both 0 and 00 are listed, and still no penalty if later only one of those two team members actually play in the game.

Penalty only kicks in if both 0 and 00 are listed in the scorebook and if both 0 and 00 actually play in the game.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JamesBCrazy

0 is not 00; they are two different numbers.

Pretend I'm from Missouri and show me where 00 is on the number line.

Or is it already there?

[jmwking]

Lousy programmers left us in this dilemma. They treated numbers on jerseys as numbers programmatically, rather than as characters.

It's as if adding Kareem and Tim Duncan would give you Jerry West.

[Indianaref]

Definitely the 08/09 interp overrides this one.
1999-2000 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 11: Ten minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game, the Referee checks the scorebook for Team B and finds starters checked included player’s identified by number as 2, 35, 00, 31 and 0.
RULING: A technical foul is assessed Team B for having 00 and 0 in the book. While 0 and 00 are legal numbers, a team may not have both 0 and 00 on the team roster. Either player No. 00 or player No. 0 will be required to change jersey numbers prior to being eligible for participation. (3-4-3, 10-1-2)

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

1999-2000 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations
SITUATION 11: Ten minutes before the scheduled starting time of the game, the Referee checks the scorebook for Team B and finds starters checked included player’s identified by number as 2, 35, 00, 31 and 0.
RULING: A technical foul is assessed Team B for having 00 and 0 in the book. While 0 and 00 are legal numbers, a team may not have both 0 and 00 on the team roster. Either player No. 00 or player No. 0 will be required to change jersey numbers prior to being eligible for participation. (3-4-3, 10-1-2)

Newer one and done 2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation SITUATION 2 probably trumps older one and done 1999-2000 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretation SITUATION 11.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

2008-09 NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations SITUATION 2: A team has members with No. 0 and No. 00 listed in the scorebook and it is discovered (a) with 14 minutes on the clock prior to the game, (b) with 8 minutes on the clock prior to the game or (c) after the game starts. RULING: In (a), changes can be made without penalty. In (b), if a number is changed in the scorebook, a team technical is charged. The offended team is awarded two free throws and a throw-in at the division line to begin the game. The arrow is toward the offending team. If no changes are made to the scorebook, no infraction has occurred. In (c), after the game starts, there is no infraction if only one of the team members (No. 0 or No. 00) participates. If the second team member wishes to participate, the result is an illegal number when "discovered." The penalty is a direct technical foul on the head coach for an illegal uniform. Two free throws and a division line throw-in for the offended team and loss of coaching box privileges for the offending coach. The second team member (with the illegal uniform number) may participate without further penalty and is NOT required to change his/her number. Another possibility exists after the game starts when one of the team members wants to change his/her number prior to participating. The result is a team technical foul (no loss of coaching box) for changing the scorebook. COMMENT: No team should have both No. 0 and No. 00 on its regular roster. The infraction is likely due to bringing a player up or down a level. Therefore, it is possible the team has access to other legal uniforms to replace a uniform with an illegal number. (3-4-3d; 10-1-2; 10-5-4)

[Zoochy]

And Now you Know... the Rest of the Story

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

This Rule is a trickle down rule from the NCAA Men's/Women's Rules. Software for maintaining game statistics which could be inputed courtside had been developed and been adopted by almost universally by colleges. The problem was that the software could not distinguish between 0 and 00 as separate Player numbers.

Now you know the rest of the story.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

This Rule is a trickle down rule from the NCAA Men's/Women's Rules. Software for maintaining game statistics which could be inputed courtside had been developed and been adopted by almost universally by colleges. The problem was that the software could not distinguish between 0 and 00 as separate Player numbers.

Now you know the rest of the story.

MTD, Sr.