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-   -   Normal Landing ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105829-normal-landing.html)

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 08:34am
Flamingo ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1049101)
NFHS CB Play 4.44.3B for a similar situation of indecision by an Offensive Player who is in Control of the Ball.
4.44.3 SITUATION B: A1 receives a pass and establishes the right foot as the pivot. While faking a pass or try, A1 lifts the pivot foot and stands on the left foot alone while undecided as to what to do. Has A1 traveled? RULING: No. Traveling would occur only if A1 begins a dribble or returns the pivot foot to the floor. While in this position A1 may pass, try for goal or request a time-out.

https://www.theyucatantimes.com/wp-c...on-one-leg.jpg

Raymond Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:21am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049104)
What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?
How the hell do you know what's in that player's mind and that's the reason they stepped the wrong way? Did it look like a normal landing or not? Come on now Billy!!! Jeez

That's the kind of craziness that just derails conversations.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

JRutledge Tue Nov 01, 2022 10:33am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049104)
What about a player who during a throw-in, while airborne, catches the inbounds pass after jumping from the frontcourt, lands solidly with one foot in the frontcourt, incorrectly believes that to put his other foot down in the backcourt would result in a backcourt violation, so he consciously hesitates while trying to maintain his balance while remaining on one foot for a second, but end ups losing his balance and his other foot falls into the backcourt?

Is that "normal landing"?
Yes it is a normal landing. Time to move on. :eek:

Peace

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:13am
Reading Is Fundamental ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1049117)
How the hell do you know what's in that player's mind and that's the reason they stepped the wrong way? Did it look like a normal landing or not?
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049103)
... we all know what a normal landing looks like in a real game, but what does it "sound" like in text on a written exam?
Let's go to the videotape ... Wait ... I'm being told ... We don't ... Never mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049120)
Yeah, I know that I'm reading too much into the question, but I'm a forty-plus year IAABO Refresher Exam veteran (never getting a perfect score but often coming very close) and know that answers often hinge on one tricky "got'cha" word. IAABO Refresher Exams can be intentionally tricky (not sure about NFHS exams).

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 11:16am
No More Beating Around The Bush ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049119)
Yes it is a normal landing.
Now that's the kind of of answer I'm looking for to confirm my answer.

Thanks JRutledge.

JRutledge Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:16pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049122)
Now that's the kind of of answer I'm looking for to confirm my answer.

Thanks JRutledge.
It really isn't. You post this crap all the time as if everyone needs to worry about your thoughts of a stupid test that most of us do not take and you are not working regular varsity. You said you are doing mostly middle school right? Is this going to prevent you from working the middle school title if you get this answer wrong? Seriously, we have serious officials trying to discuss serious things and you are talking about what is a normal landing as if none of us can figure it out. It is getting old. I think you get some sick thrill out of this crap and you do this all over the page. We get it, you have to parse out every word or meaning of something, but do the rest of us have to be subjected to that all the time in every topic?

Peace

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 12:53pm
Middle School ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049125)
... you are not working regular varsity. You said you are doing mostly middle school right?
What difference does that make?

Same rules.

Middle school kids want to win just as bad as varsity kids, and they deserve officials that know the rules.

Yes, I have severe arthritis in my right foot.

Yes, I no longer run like a gazelle.

Yes, I have unilaterally and voluntary taken myself off the varsity list.

Varsity games "mean more" than middle school games in that wins and losses count toward something, post season play. Almost all middle schools in my local area are independent and do not belong to a league or conference, and don't keep standings. There are no post season middle school playoffs or tournaments. My lack of mobility should not impact varsity games, varsity standings, varsity seeding, varsity players, varsity coaches, varsity fans, or most importantly, my varsity partners. I won't allow it.

So, why should I not also give up middle school games?

My limited mobility must be weighed against my forty-plus years of experience; my availability to officiate difficult-to-assign mid-afternoon games; and my enthusiasm for officiating subvarsity (middle school, freshman, junior varsity) basketball games.

I've heard from many middle school coaches that they appreciate having a veteran official work their games, a veteran official who actually “wants to be there”. Most coaches smile and greet me warmly when I walk into the gym. They know that I know the rules, want to be there, and will give 100% effort.

Many middle school coaches are used to "brand new" rookie officials, some of whom don't yet know if the basketball is stuffed or inflated (some never will); or "washed up" guys who have never been a varsity official, or never will be a varsity official, who are there, not because they want to be there, but because they want the money. They just want to get in, get out, and get paid. Not me.

I'm four, or five, years into this now. I have yet to hear complaints. From coaches. From athletic directors. From site directors. From fans. From players. From colleagues. And most importantly, from my assigner.

I have told my assigner, on many occasions, that if he hears of any complaints about my lack of mobility from coaches, athletic directors, site directors, or my colleagues, to please let me know and then we can have a discussion about my future in officiating. Fewer games. Just middle school (not freshmen or junior varsity). Just girls. Or no games and just have me sell raffle tickets at the door of our meetings.

JRutledge Tue Nov 01, 2022 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049128)
What difference does that make?

Same rules.

Middle school kids want to win just as bad as varsity kids, and they deserve officials that know the rules.

Yes, I have severe arthritis in my right foot.

Yes, I no longer run like a gazelle.

Yes, I have unilaterally and voluntary taken myself off the varsity list.

Varsity games "mean more" than middle school games in that wins and losses count toward something, post season play. Almost all middle schools in my local area are independent and do not belong to a league or conference, and don't keep standings. There are no post season middle school playoffs or tournaments. My lack of mobility should not impact varsity games, varsity standings, varsity seeding, varsity players, varsity coaches, varsity fans, or most importantly, my varsity partners. I won't allow it.

So, why should I not also give up middle school games?

My limited mobility must be weighed against my forty-plus years of experience; my availability to officiate difficult-to-assign mid-afternoon games; and my enthusiasm for officiating subvarsity (middle school, freshman, junior varsity) basketball games.

I've heard from many middle school coaches that they appreciate having a veteran official work their games, a veteran official who actually “wants to be there”. Most coaches smile and greet me warmly when I walk into the gym. They know that I know the rules, want to be there, and will give 100% effort.

Many middle school coaches are used to "brand new" rookie officials, some of whom don't yet know if the basketball is stuffed or inflated (some never will); or "washed up" guys who have never been a varsity official, or never will be a varsity official, who are there, not because they want to be there, but because they want the money. They just want to get in, get out, and get paid. Not me.

I'm four, or five, years into this now. I have yet to hear complaints. From coaches. From athletic directors. From site directors. From fans. From players. From colleagues. And most importantly, from my assigner.

I have told my assigner, on many occasions, that if he hears of any complaints about my lack of mobility from coaches, athletic directors, site directors, or my colleagues, to please let me know and then we can have a discussion about my future in officiating. Fewer games. Just middle school (not freshmen or junior varsity). Just girls. Or no games and just have me sell raffle tickets at the door of our meetings.
You posted a test question that not everyone here takes that test. Did you get the answer wrong? And if you did do you bore them with the emails and correspondence that you do here? When we have test questions that are bad, we contact the people that wrote the damn thing.

I would expect this from a rookie, not someone that has been doing it nearly as long as me or longer. I get if a rookie has not seen enough basketball to know how to apply this basic rule, but not someone like you. And you keep bringing up these "what ifs" as if it helps the rest of us out.

Clearly, the moderators have left the barn. This used to never be the case or it would be addressed.

We get it you agonize over every single word on a test. But you do that here which is not the purpose of your personal social media page. People answer your questions and you still go on and on. My God man, doesn't this get old to you too? :rolleyes:

Peace

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 01:51pm
Seeing Is Believing ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049130)
You posted a test question that not everyone here takes that test.
But I actually have the test question in front of me and have asked for help. And it isn't cheating. It's an open book test and we have been encouraged to answer questions in groups with colleagues. We've even been given citations for each question (but no answers). Do I have any colleagues on the Forum?

As I've stated earlier, if this situation occurred in a real game, most of us would easily and immediately interpret whether, or not, a "hesitation" impacted a "normal landing", and not think twice about it.

My interpretation is to ignore the word "hesitates". No violation.

Still waiting for an explanation about the relevance to this thread of JRutledge's varsity/middle school comment.

Should middle school officials be given second class status on the Forum?

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 02:14pm
All Officials ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049125)
... you are not working regular varsity. You said you are doing mostly middle school right?
It may not be the same in JRutledge's neck of the woods, but here in my little corner of Connecticut, all officials (varsity, junior varsity, freshman, middle school) take the same exam. The score on the exam has absolutely no impact on one's assigned game levels, or number of games assigned (other than zero).

Pass the exam (80% or better)? Get game assignments. Fail the exam? Attend a remedial rules and mechanics class and then get game assignments. Fail the exam and not attend a remedial rules and mechanics class? No game assignments for the season.

JRutledge Tue Nov 01, 2022 02:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049134)
It may not be the same in JRutledge's neck of the woods, but here in my little corner of Connecticut, all officials (varsity, junior varsity, freshman, middle school) take the same exam. The score on the exam has absolutely no impact on one's assigned game levels, or number of games assigned.

Pass the exam (80% or better)? Get game assignments. Fail the exam? Attend a remedial rules and mechanics class and then get game assignments. Fail the exam and not attend a remedial rules and mechanics class? No game assignments for the season.
A bunch of information I did not ask for. I do not care what everyone takes in a place that is smaller in your entire state than the metropolitan area I live currently. My point was you could ask the people that made the test what they were getting at. We do that here all the time. Problem solved. But if you do not know what a normal landing is or cannot ask the people that are responsible for your requirements, that is an issue.

Peace

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 02:59pm
Why The Difference ???
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049137)
A bunch of information I did not ask for.
But I would still like to know why it makes a difference to JRutledge if the test taker is a varsity official, or a middle school official, or somebody in between?

Should varsity officials care more about their exam results than middle school officials?

Should varsity officials care more about learning rules than middle school officials?

JRutledge Tue Nov 01, 2022 04:20pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1049138)
But I would still like to know why it makes a difference to JRutledge if the test taker is a varsity official, or a middle school official, or somebody in between?

Should varsity officials care more about their exam results than middle school officials?

Should varsity officials care more about learning rules than middle school officials?
You missed the point. If you do not get this question right, is it going to influence your assignments at any level? In other words, if you get a 100% vs a 98% is this going to change anything? If it does that would make some sense. But you always going around telling us you only work Middle school anymore. You said that when we were talking about the shot clock and the reasons for it. So if your life is not going to change as a result, then why would you not just contact the IAABO folks in your area and then get clarification from them. No one here that is not there is going to ultimately answer the debate in your head. A normal landing is just that. If someone, where you live, is so worried about that because it was on the test, they really are doing the profession a disservice.

I do not give a shit about middle school games. It is a place for the kids to learn the game, the result will be forgotten in the spring. I cannot tell you what games we won. Honestly, even varsity ball has so much of my attention because as time goes on you forget those situations too. But at least when you do something like win a conference in high school, there is likely a banner or trophy somewhere that everyone remembers. Heck, when I did that level I was trying not to call a travel every trip up the court. Not worry about the idiosyncracies of something I will never see at that level hardly. Normal landing is one foot after the other when in the air. If it is that complicated beyond that, way too much thinking.

Peace

BillyMac Tue Nov 01, 2022 05:27pm
Good Rules Guy ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049141)
If you do not get this question right, is it going to influence your assignments at any level? In other words, if you get a 100% vs a 98% is this going to change anything? ... why would you not just contact the IAABO folks in your area and then get clarification from them.
No.

It's about self confidence and pride, giving 100% to try to be a good rules guy. Study. Memorize. Understand. Incorporate into my game. Teach the young'un partners that I officiate with in my middle school games

I view the Forum as an expansion of my local study group.

My local IAABO board will not release answers until November 18, 2022. After that, if I feel I don't understand an interpretation, I can contact my local interpreter, who always will answers my calls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1049141)
A normal landing is just that. Normal landing is one foot after the other when in the air.
Agree, but as I said, some in my study group didn't want to ignore the word "hesitate", thinking that IAABO was trying to trick them (some even posing as flamingos), as IAABO has been known to do in the past.

JRutledge Wed Nov 02, 2022 08:55am
The point is we do not need all your head games in this or space the way you do them. If you are really struggling with the rule, contact the people that made the test. See what they think and what they were trying to accomplish by asking it. The reason I said all the other stuff is because I am aware of officials that have to get a certain score or they lose assignments or do not get the necessary points. If that is not the case, you're going over and over some issues that you seem to be the only one having is not helping everyone. This forum should be to help everyone, not a single person's neurotic concerns on every possible issue. So if this was the question you were so afraid of missing because it put you under a certain level to get further assignments, I would get that, but even then you are going about wrong for the audience that is here or remains here. I have my concerns with all kinds of things but you will never see me hash it out here without talking to people in my backyard. I stand by what I said. And I did not need pictures, a reference to some song you never heard of, or a response to myself to make such a point.

Peace


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