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-   -   Huddle with coach during free throw? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105636-huddle-coach-during-free-throw.html)

bob jenkins Mon Feb 07, 2022 10:41am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1046829)
. For the OP, if the defensive players are causing a delay by huddling, you can follow the procedure for administering a delay warning. Hopefully it does not get to the point where you have to administer a technical foul for delay.
1) The offensive players can also case a delay by huddling.

2) Huddling in the lane to delay the administration of the FT is NOT what the OP was about. It was the team meeting near the bench. If the defense does not put two players in the lower blocks, it's a T, with no (official) warning and certainly not a delay warning. (Good game management will have the official tell the coach that the players are needed before resorting to the T.)

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:01am
A Player Must Not Delay The Game ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1046830)
If the defense does not put two players in the lower blocks, it's a T, with no (official) warning and certainly not a delay warning.
10-4-5: A player must not: Delay the game by acts such as:
a. Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play.
c. The free thrower fails to be in the free-throw semicircle when the official is ready to administer the free throw unless the resumption-of-play procedure is in effect following a time-out or intermission.

10.4.5 SITUATION: The ruling official has reported the foul and has given directions to players along the lane. The official is ready to put the ball at free thrower A1’s disposal, but A1 is at the sideline talking to the coach. RULING: A technical foul for delay is charged to A1. No warning is authorized in this situation. (10-3-5c)

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:05am
Don't Say ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1046820)
"Everybody get behind the division line” ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1046829)
I never say that.
Most don't. Some do.

Altor Mon Feb 07, 2022 11:59am
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1046828)
Not during a timeout or intermission: Legal?
As far as I could see, he occupied a legal spot on the floor before any opponents did. During a timeout or intermission, he certainly can't be there. But during FTs? I don't know what rule he is breaking.

Quote:
Unsporting?
Unsporting to the point of a TF? I can't imagine that being called for simply standing in a legal position. Poor form/bad sportsmanship? Probably. Deserved a "knock it off"? Definitely.

ilyazhito Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:14pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1046830)
1) The offensive players can also case a delay by huddling.

2) Huddling in the lane to delay the administration of the FT is NOT what the OP was about. It was the team meeting near the bench. If the defense does not put two players in the lower blocks, it's a T, with no (official) warning and certainly not a delay warning. (Good game management will have the official tell the coach that the players are needed before resorting to the T.)
I am aware of that. However, in the OP, it appears to me that the OP was mentioning the defense, because he referenced 4 players huddling with their coach before the 2nd free throw. Only 2 players can be in the lane for the offense, so there is no way that there could be a 4-player huddle by the offense and they have 2 players in the lane at the same time.

bob jenkins Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1046834)
I am aware of that. However, in the OP, it appears to me that the OP was mentioning the defense, because he referenced 4 players huddling with their coach before the 2nd free throw. Only 2 players can be in the lane for the offense, so there is no way that there could be a 4-player huddle by the offense and they have 2 players in the lane at the same time.
Great. Still has nothing to do with the delay warning.

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:40pm
Knock It Off ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1046833)
As far as I could see, he occupied a legal spot on the floor before any opponents did. During a timeout or intermission, he certainly can't be there. But during FTs? I don't know what rule he is breaking. Unsporting to the point of a TF? I can't imagine that being called for simply standing in a legal position. Poor form/bad sportsmanship? Probably. Deserved a "knock it off"? Definitely.
Agree. However doesn't "unsporting" literally mean "not sportsmanlike", or "bad sportsmanship"?

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:44pm
Offensive Players ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1046834)
I am aware of that. However, in the OP, it appears to me that the OP was mentioning the defense, because he referenced 4 players huddling with their coach before the 2nd free throw.
Sounds like offensive players to me. The shooter. Two who can be on the lane and choose not to. Two that can't be on the lane.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cozzmokramer (Post 1046814)
... coach always brings his four players over to his sideline while his player shoots the first free throw. The four players huddle around him with his whiteboard, then after his player shoots the free throw those four players take their spots in the FT lane.

Raymond Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1046834)
I am aware of that. However, in the OP, it appears to me that the OP was mentioning the defense, because he referenced 4 players huddling with their coach before the 2nd free throw. Only 2 players can be in the lane for the offense, so there is no way that there could be a 4-player huddle by the offense and they have 2 players in the lane at the same time.
Point being, if it is the defense huddling 4 players near the coach, there is no delay warning for failing to occupy both of the bottom lane spaces, it's technical foul.

Raymond Mon Feb 07, 2022 12:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1046833)
As far as I could see, he occupied a legal spot on the floor before any opponents did. During a timeout or intermission, he certainly can't be there. But during FTs? I don't know what rule he is breaking.


Unsporting to the point of a TF? I can't imagine that being called for simply standing in a legal position. Poor form/bad sportsmanship? Probably. Deserved a "knock it off"? Definitely.
As long as that opponent is not making contact with or talking to any of the Team A players who are huddled up, I have nothing. There is nothing unsporting about standing on the court outside the 3 point line and above the FTLE.

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 01:33pm
Eavesdropping ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1046839)
There is nothing unsporting about standing on the court outside the 3 point line and above the FTLE.
... during a free throw.

Agree. But eavesdropping is not a "good look" for the sport.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP._...=0&w=190&h=162

Raymond Mon Feb 07, 2022 01:38pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1046840)
... during a free throw.

Agree. But eavesdropping is not a "good look" for the sport.
Huddling your players other than during an intermission or time-out subjects one to eavesdropping.

BillyMac Mon Feb 07, 2022 01:51pm
Cone Of Silence (Get Smart) ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1046841)
Huddling your players other than during an intermission or time-out subjects one to eavesdropping.
Agree. Just because one can do it doesn't mean that one should do it.

Under extreme circumstances I can see this possibly leading to some type of unsporting altercation.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Altor (Post 1046833)
Deserved a "knock it off"
https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.R...=0&w=259&h=179

bob jenkins Mon Feb 07, 2022 01:53pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1046842)
I can see this possibly leading to some type of unsporting altercation.
So work to stop that from happening (e.g., go stand by the huddle yourself -- there's clearly nothing going on at the FT that the other official can't handle) and / or deal with it when it does. Don't call it unsporting when it's just one player being near another group of players or stop that player from being there.

Raymond Mon Feb 07, 2022 01:56pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1046842)
Agree. Just because one can do it doesn't mean that one should do it.

Under extreme circumstances I can see this possibly leading to some type of unsporting altercation.
The unsporting behavior usually comes from the huddling team who think they're entitled to tell an opponent where to stand on the court. The opponent is simply legally negating an advantage the huddling team is trying to gain.

I just stand by the huddle and remind participants to keep their hands to themselves and their comments towards their own team.

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