Huddle with coach during free throw?
 

Just wanting opinions on this tactic.

On every two shot foul a coach always brings his four players over to his sideline while his player shoots the first free throw. The four players huddle around him with his whiteboard, then after his player shoots the free throw those four players take their spots in the FT lane.

Just curious if these de facto timeouts are legal? I'm not saying this isn't good coaching, but just seems like it's an unfair advantage because the other coach can't bring all of his players over during this time even if he wants to because, I believe, the bottom spots have to be filled even on a 2 shot foul, correct?

Just wondering, what, if anything should be done with this tactic?

Nothing, Kramer. Do nothing! As long as the players are above the FT line extended, outside the 3-pt arc, and still on the court, it is completely legal for the coach to conduct a "show and tell" with four of his players.

The opposing coach can meet with three of his players if they so choose. It isn't at all unfair. There is absolutely *zero* rule support for prohibiting this activity (aside from the players' locations I already mentioned).

No rules against it at all. As long as the team not shooting the FTs are in place on the first block. we do not care what the other players are doing. No one has to even be on the lane but 2 players. The rest can be wherever they want outside of the 3 point line and above FT line extended.

Peace

I will add that we should not delay the second FT to allow the coach to continue to talk or the players to slowly mosey (is there any other way to mosey?)back to the FT lane.

(Nor should we rush in order to play "gotcha" with the teams)

The bottom two lane spaces MUST be occupied by the DEFENSE on all common foul FT's.

So when you say "his" player is shooting (offense), only 2 of his players MAY occupy any of the empty lane spaces, not 4. If not done in a timely manner, just bounce it to the FT shooter and keep it moving.

If the D delays in occupying the lower blocks, as you may know, there are penalties for that.

Mosey Along ...
 

Legally Converse With Coaches ...
 

Not exactly the same, but similar in intent:

Things Officials Should Probably Not Be Saying In A Game

"Everybody get behind the division line”, often said by an official before free throws for a technical foul, or an intentional foul, is also not rule based. According to the rule, the nine non-shooters shall remain behind the free throw line extended, and behind the three point arc, and do not have to stay behind the division line. In some cases, this may allow players to legally converse with their coaches.

The teams can even do that any time during the game, it would not be advised outside of FTs, however.

Not saying it's the incorrect application, but what is your source for the bolded.

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The Old Adage ...
 

If it's not illegal, it's legal.

I thought you had a specific citation since you said "according to the rules" earlier in that paragraph or that you were quoting somebody or something.

Didn't realize they were your own words.

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You Don't Say ...
 

Sorry. From a seven year old article of mine that was published in IAABO Sportorials magazine.

Watched this take place one night:

Team A is shooting FTs in the first half, coach calls the other four players over during the first. B5 jogs over. He doesn't insert himself into the huddle, but looks over their shoulder and listens while Coach A is giving instructions. A12 realizes what is happening and gives B5 a small shove to push him away from the huddle. Nothing malicious, but can't say I remember if the ball was live when the shove occurred or not. B5 grins and takes a couple steps away. All this occurred with T's back to them. Could have been a bad situation.

Shouldn't Be Legal ...
 

Not during a timeout or intermission: Legal?

Unsporting?

I never say that. The players do that on their own. For the OP, if the defensive players are causing a delay by huddling, you can follow the procedure for administering a delay warning. Hopefully it does not get to the point where you have to administer a technical foul for delay.

1) The offensive players can also case a delay by huddling.

2) Huddling in the lane to delay the administration of the FT is NOT what the OP was about. It was the team meeting near the bench. If the defense does not put two players in the lower blocks, it's a T, with no (official) warning and certainly not a delay warning. (Good game management will have the official tell the coach that the players are needed before resorting to the T.)

A Player Must Not Delay The Game ...
 

Don't Say ...
 

Most don't. Some do.

As far as I could see, he occupied a legal spot on the floor before any opponents did. During a timeout or intermission, he certainly can't be there. But during FTs? I don't know what rule he is breaking.

Unsporting to the point of a TF? I can't imagine that being called for simply standing in a legal position. Poor form/bad sportsmanship? Probably. Deserved a "knock it off"? Definitely.

I am aware of that. However, in the OP, it appears to me that the OP was mentioning the defense, because he referenced 4 players huddling with their coach before the 2nd free throw. Only 2 players can be in the lane for the offense, so there is no way that there could be a 4-player huddle by the offense and they have 2 players in the lane at the same time.

Great. Still has nothing to do with the delay warning.

Knock It Off ...
 

Agree. However doesn't "unsporting" literally mean "not sportsmanlike", or "bad sportsmanship"?

Offensive Players ...
 

Sounds like offensive players to me. The shooter. Two who can be on the lane and choose not to. Two that can't be on the lane.

Point being, if it is the defense huddling 4 players near the coach, there is no delay warning for failing to occupy both of the bottom lane spaces, it's technical foul.

As long as that opponent is not making contact with or talking to any of the Team A players who are huddled up, I have nothing. There is nothing unsporting about standing on the court outside the 3 point line and above the FTLE.

Eavesdropping ...
 

... during a free throw.

Agree. But eavesdropping is not a "good look" for the sport.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP._...=0&w=190&h=162

Huddling your players other than during an intermission or time-out subjects one to eavesdropping.

Cone Of Silence (Get Smart) ...
 

Agree. Just because one can do it doesn't mean that one should do it.

Under extreme circumstances I can see this possibly leading to some type of unsporting altercation.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.R...=0&w=259&h=179

So work to stop that from happening (e.g., go stand by the huddle yourself -- there's clearly nothing going on at the FT that the other official can't handle) and / or deal with it when it does. Don't call it unsporting when it's just one player being near another group of players or stop that player from being there.

The unsporting behavior usually comes from the huddling team who think they're entitled to tell an opponent where to stand on the court. The opponent is simply legally negating an advantage the huddling team is trying to gain.

I just stand by the huddle and remind participants to keep their hands to themselves and their comments towards their own team.

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Right Thing To Do ...
 

This thread reminded me of a near similar situation that I had decades ago. The huddled coach actually complained to me. I moved toward the eavesdropping player and told him (with no rules basis) to leave. Seemed to me to be the right thing to do at the time. Player left. End of story. Never had this situation again.

I never called it unsporting, just questioned if it could be considered unsporting. It pretty difficult to call something legal unsporting.

Occasionally, in regard to intrateam communication and profane language, Forum members have mentioned the "inviolability of the huddle".

The huddle is not inviolable all the time, especially during a free throw.

Designated Time Out Areas ...
 

My situation was before designated time out areas were defined in the rules.

1-13-3: The time-out area must be the area inside an imaginary rectangle formed by the boundaries of the sideline (including the bench), end line, and an imaginary line extended from the free-throw lane line nearest the bench area meeting an imaginary line extended from the coaching-box line.

5-11-2,3: … must be conducted within the confines of the time-out area.

The initial penalty for failing to occupy the required lane spaces is a free throw violation, but the huddling around the coach adds in a delay offense, and that triggers the technical foul.

No part of that statement is correct.

10.2.1 SITUATION C

The ruling official has reported the foul and proceeds to his/her proper position for the first of two free throws awarded to A1... (b) two B players are not occupying the first two marked spaces next to the end line as required.

In (b), Team B will be directed to occupy the required spaces. If there is delay, a team technical foul shall be charged to Team B. (4-47)

Thinking of 8-1-2 perhaps, ilyazhito?

Quadruple Violation ???
 

If the offense is in the lower two spaces, it's a double (simultaneous) violation, for the offense to be where they don't belong, and for the defense to not be where they do belong.

9.1.2 SITUATION B: A1 is shooting the first of a bonus free-throw situation. A4 and A5 are positioned in the first two marked lane spaces (near the end line) and B4 and B5 are positioned in the second two marked lane spaces. The incorrect alignment is discovered by the officials (a) before the ball is at the disposal of A1; (b) after the ball is at A1's disposal, but before the try is in flight; (c) when the try is in flight; (d) when the successful try goes through the cylinder; (e) when the unsuccessful try is rebounding off the basket ring; or (f) when the rebound of the unsuccessful try is securely in A4's possession. RULING: In (a), the administering official shall "reset" the free throw and put the players in their proper marked lane spaces. In (b) and (c) an official shall sound his/her whistle immediately and call a simultaneous violation, utilizing the alternating-possession procedure to put the ball in play. In (d), (e) and (f) the free throw has ended and the improper alignment is ignored. (4-20-3; 9-1-2 Penalty 3)

Bob, forgive him. He is just getting confused by his nascent familiarity with rules promulgated by the Greater Filipino Professional Midget Basketball Association.

I understand he aspires to be hired by that group, provided he can pass their arduous testing regimen and the requirement to have facility speaking Tagalog.

He has already demonstrated proficient language skills, his downfall will be to assimilate basketball rule sets.

What does the rule book say is "unsportsmanlike conduct"? I don't believe this applies. That's why I used the terms "poor form" and "bad sportsmanship". Yes, it's nuanced.

Shooting a three pointer at the buzzer of a game you are already winning by 30 when the defense is already walking towards their bench is poor form/bad sportsmanship . I don't believe anyone thinks it rises to the level of unsportsmanlike conduct.

Not Limited To ...
 

Agree. Most likely doesn't apply here. Just tossing it out for discussion.

Rule book doesn't really define unsportsmanlike conduct. It just give examples with the open ended qualifying phrase, "this includes, but is not limited to ...".

... was the Funk and Wagnalls definition.

https://tse2.explicit.bing.net/th?id...=0&w=169&h=167

Don't You Dare ...
 

Had this a few years ago.

Winning captain was teeing up his shot when I told him, as the trail, "Don't you dare".

He didn't shoot.

Had he shot the ball, I would have counted, or not counted, the three, turned away and quietly left the gym with my partner.