CE Scenario
 

Team B has 6 team fouls per the scoreboard. B1 commits a common foul on A1. A1 shoots a one-and-one; he makes the first and misses the second. B2 rebounds the miss and we go the other way. Once the ball is in B’s frontcourt, Coach B goes to the table and requests a time out to discuss a correctable error, which is granted. The scorer checks his totals and (sheepishly) realizes that Team B only had 5 team fouls prior to B1’s common foul, not 6.

You’re the crew chief. What do you do?


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Unfortunately we have to take the point off the scoreboard and Team B retains the ball. It's a horrible situation. That's why I track team fouls on the scoreboard every time a team commits a foul.

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Fairness ...
 

Sometimes the correctable error remedy just doesn't seem fair. But we have to live with it. It is what it is.

It's why we need to be extra diligent and not have the attitude of "it's not my job to think that hard".

Game Awareness ...
 

Especially in my middle school games, with no team fouls on the scoreboard, and students often at the table. My antennae always go up when we get close and I always ask, "How many fouls?". My game awareness must be pretty good because the most common answer I get is, "Six", which I relay to my partner. While it may not be my job to keep track of team fouls, it is my job to be aware of important game situations.

Worked a middle school game this week with no scorebook for either team. No team fouls on scoreboard. Three students at the table. Personal and team fouls were kept track of on a sheet of paper torn from a notebook. The kids did a good job, but my partner and I were on "red alert" the entire game.

Get one of those football down-indicators that are worn on the wrist Move it to a different finger for each foul (presumably you'd have enough game awareness to know the difference between the first foul and the sixth).

insert your own blue font

The Barefoot Basketball Official ...
 

By using both my fingers and toes, I could keep track of team fouls all the way up to the "double bonus" for both teams.

Of course, that would be difficult for someone like my high school wood shop teacher (and driver education instructor) Mr. Klemkowski, who was missing a thumb. When he taught us how to use the band saw safely, we all listened intently.

The table screwed up and the teams allowed them to screw up without saying anything before. That simple. Not about the rule being fair IMO. If you are on top of this you would be raising the flag before we shoot the FT. Considering that is not a common complaint, I might listen and try to investigate.

Yes I try to monitor the scoreboard, but it has been wrong so many times in my career I ask but they ultimately tell me where we are.

Peace

Complaints ...
 

JRutledge is correct. The offended team, especially their scorekeeper, bears some responsibility.

JRutledge "might" listen. I'm always listening and never ignoring any complaints about team fouls, bonus, or "double bonus". Even some "mumbling" will get my antennae up.

Of course, four years of doing mostly middle school games (post arthritis, post day job retirement, afternoon availability) will do that to me (students at the table, no team fouls on scoreboard).

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.0...=0&w=163&h=171

As you might have guessed, this happened in my game the other night. MS semi-final playoff game, all indications were the table was crisp and on their game. We probably got complacent. But 4th quarter, loud gym, physical game, and very close game. There was a lot to think about, and up until that point we had no reason not to trust the adults at the table.

Then the incident. It was the home scorer and it negatively affected the home team, so that made me feel a little better. Credit to the visiting head coach and his statistician who noticed it in time. I’ve had four or five CEs in 15 years, but this was the first one where the crew didn’t notice on our own. Textbook case of the head coach exercising his right to approach the table.

What really bugs me is that in the moment, we conflated the “no change in possession” rule for merited FTs with unmerited FTs. Gave the ball back to A under their basket after we cancelled the FT. Realized it later that night when something just didn’t feel right and I looked it up. First time I’ve flat-out kicked a rule in over a decade. I’m annoyed with myself.


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I do not need you to summarize my comments. I made my comments rather clear in what I said. If you have questions or comments about what I said is fine, but it feels like you have to approve the comments made by other posters. This is getting really old and needs to stop. We all have our process and my process does not have to be approved by anyone. You can take it or leave it. But either way, the rule is clear and if this happens there are ways to try to prevent it from all sides. But once it happens, we are stuck under the rules.

Peace

Bonus ???
 

Note that I don't ask, "Are we in the bonus?".

Learned not to ask that a long time ago in my middle school games. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.

Especially at the beginning of the season, many middle school students at the table aren't really sure what the "bonus" means.

After twenty-five years of coaching middle school basketball, thirty years of officiating Catholic middle school games on my off nights of full varsity schedules, and the last four years of a steady diet of middle school games, I'm whatcha call a middle school basketball officiating expert.

Yep, on my tombstone it will say, "Here Lies BillyMac, Middle School Basketball Officiating Expert".

Hopefully not too soon.

Stuck ...
 

Agree. Lots of things had to go wrong, from lots of stakeholders, for a correctable error to occur.

Agree 100%. We can't make up rules as we go along.

I will often work the scoreboard for our freshmen games. I find myself asking after every foul to make sure the player total and team total match up. Sometimes there is 1 book, sometimes there is 2. It is my responsibility to hopefully not add any extra things to the officials plate.

Teachable Moment ...
 

crosscountry55: Could you be more specific? Not to beat you up, or to embarrass you, but for all of us to learn.

On Behalf Of All Officials ...
 

Thank you for your due diligence.

Had a freshman game yesterday. Site director (school system's version of an athletic director) on the clock/scoreboard, and the regular varsity scorekeeper (who's been there decades, was the previous site director) on the (single) scorebook. Seventh heaven for me.

Non-officials can't possibly appreciate how important a good table crew is to having a good game.

Agree with the ruling, but I don't think it is that bad of a situation. It just puts some of the responsibility also on team A to make sure they're not taking FTs they don't deserve. They typically know how many fouls they have too, just like the other team did. If they sit back and allow it to occur when they know otherwise, they're doing so at the risk of losing the FTs and the ball....you can't have your cake and eat it too.

We were thinking, “B got the rebound, then they called TO during that possession, so no change in possession means that you ignore POI and put the ball back in play as you would have had the error not occurred.”

But that only happens when there’s a failure to award a merited FT. It has nothing to do the awarding of unmerited FTs.

So all you whipper-snappers out there (because we’re such a young group on this archaic platform and all), don’t make my mistake.


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Have always hated that line of reasoning to mitigate the crew's (table/officials) responsibility and guilt in the situation. Why should coaches be more aware than officials? Opens the door (or it's already open and been entered) for opponents (especially home teams) to allow the free throws to be shot then wait until they are in possession to issue the challenge.

Must just be the military in me...don't pass the buck.

It is not about buck passing, it is about balance of fairness when the situation happens.

I disagree because we can ask the table all kinds of things and be given totally wrong information. So I do not put much responsibility on the officials if we are asking or clarifying what we are to do after a foul related to the foul count. Even last night I had a table mix up the fouls on the board and we had to ask for clarification and it was corrected. But if we did not notice (or me specifically) we might have done something incorrectly in the future.

Peace

Merited Free Throws ...
 

I occasionally end up doing table duties for games in which my children are involved. I've gotten a few compliments about a good table crew, keeping things smooth, and I think the local officials really appreciate not having to worry too much that things are out-of-whack there - and have built good rapport with them.

I also occasionally teach a local class on operating Nevco scoreboards and how to be reasonably good with them while being as accurate as possible. It's rather disconcerting when I go to a game (as a spectator) and see a high-function scoreboard and all you see is a clock, two scores, and if you're lucky two team foul counts...

Might be good to mention to the AD's that they consider developing the next generation of table crews too...

CE Scenario
 

Preach it! That bugs me, too. Folks can multi-task on their phones these days like audio technicians in a recording studio. But put them on a scoreboard console and all of a sudden they are feature-limited.

Good luck. Everyone wants to get paid these days. Back in the early 90s when I was in middle school, it was hardly a problem finding table volunteers, let alone income seekers. Not anymore.


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