![]() |
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
|
Pretty Good Basis ...
Quote:
However, for the tens of thousands of officials who weren't the "everyone" around to remember somebody painting the first arcs on gymnasium floors, and then the subsequent alley oop rule change, it would be nice if the NFHS could somehow codify purpose and intent, with rule language changes, and casebook interpretations (please, no annual interpretations, or points of emphasis). Also, was it simply an alley oop change, or were there also changes regarding the ball touching a defensive player who was inside the arc, as in a deflected (blocked) "throw"? And, of course the alley oop change also complicated the interpretation of goaltending. Again, I sometimes wish that the NFHS continued to limit three points to trys. If wishes were horses then beggars would ride, If turnips were swords I’d have one by my side. If ‘ifs’ and ‘ands’ were pots and pans There would be no need for tinker’s hands! (Scottish nursery rhyme) |
For The Good Of The Cause (NFHS) ...
5-2-1: A successful try, tap or thrown ball from the field by a player who is located behind the team’s own 19-foot, 9-inch arc counts three points. A ball that touches the floor, a teammate inside the arc, an official, or any other goal from the field counts two points for the team into whose basket the ball is thrown.
5.2.1 SITUATION A: A1 attempts a three-point goal. B1 slaps the ball: (a) while it is in downward flight outside the cylinder, but above the ring level; or (b) while it is in the cylinder after bouncing off the ring. RULING: It is defensive goaltending in (a) and defensive basket interference in (b). Three points are awarded in both cases as a result of the violation. (9-11, 12) 5.2.1 SITUATION B: With 2:45 left in the second quarter, B1 has the ball on the left wing in Team B's frontcourt, standing behind the three-point arc. B5 makes a backdoor cut toward the basket. B1 passes the ball toward the ring and B5 leaps for the potential "alley-oop" dunk. The ball, however, enters and passes through the goal directly from B1's pass and is not touched by B5. RULING: Score three points for Team B. A ball that is thrown into a team's own goal from behind the three-point arc scores three points, regardless of whether the thrown ball was an actual try for goal. 5.2.1 SITUATION C: A1 throws the ball from behind the three-point line. The ball is legally touched by: (a) B1 who is in the three-point area; (b) B1 who is in the two-point area; (c) A2 who is in the three-point area; or (d) A2 who is in the two-point area. The ball continues in flight and goes through A's basket. RULING: In (a) and (b), three points are scored since the legal touching was by the defense and the ball was thrown from behind the three-point line. In (c), score three points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred behind the three-point line. In (d), score two points since the legal touch by a teammate occurred in the two-point area. 4.41.4 SITUATION B: A1’s three-point try is short and below ring level when it hits the shoulder of: (a) A2; or (b) B1 and rebounds to the backboard and through the basket. RULING: The three-point try ended when it was obviously short and below the ring. However, since a live ball went through the basket, two points are scored in both (a) and (b). (5-1) |
Bounces On The Floor ...
Quote:
Quote:
5.1.1 SITUATION B: A pass, a tap or a try for field goal by A1 is in flight when the horn sounds indicating the expiration of time in the third quarter. The ball subsequently comes down several feet in front of the basket, strikes the floor without touching any player and bounces into the basket. RULING: When deemed a pass and not a try, the ball becomes dead immediately when the horn sounds. However, a try or tap by A1 towards A’s basket does not become dead until the try or tap ends, which it does when it touches the floor. Therefore, no points are scored. (4-41-2, 4, 5) |
Weren't Those Lines Always There ???
What about a "thrown" ball from outside the arc that touches a teammate (or opponent) outside the arc on the shoulder and subsequently enters the basket?
Since many were not alive when arcs were first painting on gymnasium floors, and for the subsequent alley oop rule change, and thus weren't privy to comments on these rules revisions, and thus original purpose and intent, please base one's answer only on the current rule definition and the current casebook plays. Quote:
|
Quote:
Quote:
If the ball is "on the way up" and is deflected while STILL below the height of the ring, it's still a try / throw and worth three points. IOW, stop focusing only on the location of the ball relative to the ring and start focusing on the whole play. |
On The Way Up ...
Sorry, I thought that "short" referred to north/south, not up/down.
Quote:
However, I wish that the NFHS would add "on the way up" to its rulebbok and casebook, if not for anything else, then for the young'uns. Always say "Merry Christmas" to bob. |
There are no young officials worried about that play, you are. Quit being a proxy.
Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
Quote:
Peace |
Clarity ...
Quote:
Quote:
Merry Christmas. |
Quote:
And as usual you have taken this conversation so many different places you don't even know what we're referencing. We're talking about you taking this conversation to the ball hitting the shoulder of somebody outside the three-point line. No one is sitting around worrying about that. You're worrying about that, but then you try to pawn it off as "the youngins are wondering what to do". Quit with the passive aggressive posting. All these questions are for you. You're not representing all the young officials of the nation. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
Cited Answers ...
Quote:
|
Quote:
I'm more in touch with what young officials are trying to learn than you are. I know that just by the fact of what I see you post and see you ask. Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk |
Me, Myself, and I ...
Quote:
Quote:
Quote:
I am not totally ignoring Camron Rust, bob jenkins, and others, I would simply like to see how their purpose and intent explanations jive with current rule definitions and the current casebook plays. Or, as a Forum member pointed out a few months ago in regard to disappearing interpretations and points of emphasis, (paraphrased) "Something in the current book to show a coach", or "Something in the current book to show a trainee official". Of course, experienced veteran basketball officials would rely on current rule definitions, current casebook plays, and purpose and intent, but that is not what I'm asking. |
Fools Rush In Where Wise Men Never Go (Ricky Nelson, 1963) …
Quote:
Quote:
Here's my personal take on my "thrown" ball "shoulder" question (directly above). Based on a purely academic reading of the current rule definition and the current casebook plays, three points (both teammate and opponent). Based on recent purpose and intent explanations by Camron Rust, and bob jenkins (“below the ring height”, "on the way up", “can't tell if it a try or pass, count it as if it were a try if it goes in. When there is no doubt about what it was ... it's not going to the basket, much less going in, without someone else changing the direction so that it goes in, it is simply a live ball that got deflected into the basket.”), two points (even if these explanations may not be the "official" purpose and intent of the NFHS). Real game for me, two points (could probably pull it off with a confident, authoritarian sounding, "It's not a try" lie to a coach). Written test for me, unsure, but current citations seem to "prove" three points. Sure, I sound "foolish", but at least I took somewhat of a stand and offered citations. As Ricky Nelson sang, "Though I see the danger there, if there's a chance for me, then I don't care". I am now fully prepared to deservedly take on the slings and the arrows. Quote:
|
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:49am. |