Foul after violation

rbruno

Had this last night in a GV game. Player A-1 rises to shoot and realizes her shot will be blocked and comes back down to the floor. I whistle the travel and just after my whistle player B-1 guarding her follows through with her attempted block and hits A-1 in the face. I explain to coach A (complaining) that the travel preceded the foul and awarded the ball to team B nearest the foul. Got to thinking.... could we have a dead ball technical for the contact after the whistle?

bob jenkins

rbruno wrote
Had this last night in a GV game. Player A-1 rises to shoot and realizes her shot will be blocked and comes back down to the floor. I whistle the travel and just after my whistle player B-1 guarding her follows through with her attempted block and hits A-1 in the face. I explain to coach A (complaining) that the travel preceded the foul and awarded the ball to team B nearest the foul. Got to thinking.... could we have a dead ball technical for the contact after the whistle?

No. 😉

(Read the definitions)

BryanV21

If the block attempt/foul is part of the play I'm probably letting it go.

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BillyMac

For contact to be ruled illegal during a dead ball period it has to be either intentional or flagrant contact.

Have to pass on (ignore) incidental contact (as we always do), or contact not deemed to be intentional or flagrant, i.e., type of contact involved with a common foul.

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
For contact to be ruled illegal during a dead ball period it has to be either intentional or flagrant contact.

(delted)

BillyMac

bob jenkins wrote
And even if its I or F, it's still not a T (as the OP asked).

Wasn't it dead ball contact?

4-9-5-C: A technical foul is: An intentional or flagrant contact foul while the ball is dead, except a foul by an airborne shooter.

rbruno

Well the ball became dead when I blew the whistle for the traveling violation. Hence my question about a foul also AND it would be technical. I seems from some that they would consider the contact incidental so go with the travel and move on as I did. I just started to question in my mind about the contact because it was in the head. No matter I'm explaining to one coach or another

BillyMac

rbruno wrote
Well the ball became dead when I blew the whistle for the traveling violation.

Became dead with the travel violation, which may have been before the whistle (reaction time).

bob jenkins

rbruno wrote
Well the ball became dead when I blew the whistle for the traveling violation. Hence my question about a foul also AND it would be technical. I seems from some that they would consider the contact incidental so go with the travel and move on as I did. I just started to question in my mind about the contact because it was in the head. No matter I'm explaining to one coach or another

IF the ball had been live-- would you have ruled an intentional personal or a flagrant personal? If so, then you should rule an intentional technical or a flagrant technical in your play. If not (that is, if you would have ruled a common foul), then you should ignore it in your play.

BillyMac

rbruno wrote
... follows through with her attempted block and hits A-1 in the face.

rbruno wrote
...the contact because it was in the head.

I missed the reference to contact above the shoulders the first time around.

bob jenkins wrote
If the ball had been live, would you have ruled an intentional personal or a flagrant personal? If so, then you should rule an intentional technical or a flagrant technical in your play. If not (that is, if you would have ruled a common foul), then you should ignore it in your play.

Agree with bob jenkins.

Depends on how fast the arms were swinging.

4.19.3 SITUATION F: After a rebound, A1, while holding the ball, pivots and A1’s elbow contacts B1 above the shoulders. A1's elbow is violently and excessively swung at a speed in excess of the player’s torso. RULING: If the contact is violent or excessive, a flagrant foul shall be called. (4-27, 4-19-2, 4-19-3, 4-19-4)

9.13.1 SITUATION B: A1 is trapped in the corner by B1 and B2, who are in legal guarding position. In an attempt to create space, A1 rapidly swings arms/elbows while using the shoulders as pivots (a) without making contact; (b) making contact with an opponent above the shoulders and elbows are moving faster than the body. RULING: In (a), A1 excessively swinging arms/elbows without contacting the opponent is a violation. Team B is awarded a designated spot throw-in nearest the violation. In (b), this is considered an intentional foul. (9-13-1)

9.13.2 SITUATION: A5 catches the ball on a rebound, “chins” the ball and then turns (with the elbow at the same speed as the body) to make an outlet pass with the elbow leading the way. Prior to releasing the ball, A1’s elbow contacts B5 above the shoulders. RULING: This may be ruled incidental contact or a player control foul.

Isn't it nice to have interpretations in the casebook and not have to rely on a nine year old Point of Emphasis?