Assaulted last night - Page 3

LSams · #31 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 25, 2003, 04:34pm

Although it may seem extreme to some or even to yourself, you need to file charges -- and you should do it ASAP while the incident is still fresh in your mind and in the minds of your partner, the officer who helped you out, as well as the lady and man who were involved on the other side of this unfortunate incident.

One of my assignors was assualted in a rec league game and he wanted to "let it go" but was convinced by one of the players in the game (who happened to be an attorney) that it was necessary to file charges. His advice to us (those who work for him now) in a similar situation is to file charges.

My two cents.

BktBallRef · #32 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 25, 2003, 05:47pm

I don't see how you can possibly NOT file charges. People like this have to be made aware that their behavior is inappropriate.

[Edited by BktBallRef on Oct 25th, 2003 at 05:51 PM]

canuckrefguy · #33 (**permalink**) Sat Oct 25, 2003, 07:15pm

This happens at a shopping mall instead of a gymnasium and it's a no-brainer.

Go make an example of these idiots.

cmathews · #34 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 12:32pm

I think something else that needs addressed here is where was game management...if you do press charges, even if it is meant as a "bluff" charge, include game management...that school is as responsible for what happened as the fan is....

mplagrow · #35 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 03:16pm

WHAT? Please don't tell me that as a principal I'm responsible for every stupid thing somebody does at my school. You'd have a hard time making that charge stick. I'm on the fence when it comes to pressing charges against this woman. Stupid people are stupid, and only in the movies do they see the error of their ways and change. Press charges, she'll still be stupid. Just stupid and madder.

cmathews · #36 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 03:36pm

mplagrow, if you are the game administration you most certainly are responsible for making sure the officials have safe passage to and from your property....to allow a mob to accost an official, without calling the authorities or making an effort to handle it yourself would not be that hard to make stick as negligence....It isn't that hard, it usually takes nothing more than telling the crowd to move on. Are you telling me that if someone comes on to school property and accosts a student you have no responsibility there either...get real, stand up and take care of your responsibility, which includes safety for all on your property...

Dan_ref · #37 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 03:55pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow
WHAT? Please don't tell me that as a principal I'm responsible for every stupid thing somebody does at my school.

You and I both know this depends on exactly what the duties of the principal are. If by contract/convention/job description you are responsible for maintaining security during these events then you're on the hook.

Quote:

You'd have a hard time making that charge stick. I'm on the fence when it comes to pressing charges against this woman. Stupid people are stupid, and only in the movies do they see the error of their ways and change. Press charges, she'll still be stupid. Just stupid and madder.

Who cares how stupid and mad she is as long as she doesn't do this again.

Kelvin green · #38 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 06:23pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow
WHAT? Please don't tell me that as a principal I'm responsible for every stupid thing somebody does at my school. You'd have a hard time making that charge stick. I'm on the fence when it comes to pressing charges against this woman. Stupid people are stupid, and only in the movies do they see the error of their ways and change. Press charges, she'll still be stupid. Just stupid and madder.

If you we are talking criminal charges you are right you cannot be held criminally liable for the actions of another unless with what you did you were some how an accomplice to this which under most circumstances would be such a strecth it would never happen...

However under a civil liablity theory of assault by her, a good attorney would probably also name the school, and the game management as a defendant. If it can be shown that with a game management's actions or inactions that the result was forseeable... That a reasonable game management provides for better security for officials, that this was negligence , yes you could be named- and your school's district could be held liable.

There are variables here if it is a public school there will be issues with governemntal immunity and what the state allows to be sued upon... if it is a private school -- yep law suit!
It may depend if school was hosting as official event vs. non-offical event--- ad nauseum...

Never say never and schools have deeper pockets. and if the game management is negligent in their duties ... well you are responsible..

You as an educator should not be on the fence with this...
I bet if you had a student that was hitting a teacher, you would not be wishy washy. If the student assaulted you I bet the kid would be suspended, and juvenile authorities would be involved... You either condone the violence or you dont, and if you dont there are civil and criminal recourses that ought to be pursued.

mplagrow · #39 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 07:25pm

Yes, I am the administrator of a private school. However, I am also an official, so I am just trying to see all sides. But I'm not a lawyer. I definitely agree that there needs to be a reasonable amount of security for officials, AMEN, that would have prevented the problem before it occurred. My point is just that sometimes an individual acts in an unforeseeable fashion, and no amount of game management can always prevent that. It sounds like you know your law. I suppose in a society where someone can sue McD's for making them fat, someone can sue my school because of one individual's actions. But then you have to define where my responsibility ends as game administrator. What if the ref is parked on a public street and the accosting happens there? What if it happens at a gas station half an hour later? And as far as pressing charges goes, I just question what purpose will be served. Revenge? Teach her a lesson? Educate her? I've heard a few different rationals already offered on this board. I am 'on the fence' because I've seen the results of pressing charges, and it seldom is done for constructive reasons and usually doesn't accomplish anything. . .except the desire for revenge.

cmathews · #40 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 07:49pm

in the original post it sounded as if game management was no where to be found...if this is the case then I think they should be named in any court documents...if game management was there and couldn't get the crowd away and did what they could then that is a different story...the point of the lawsuit would be to set an example...maybe if enough parents see that this is not only socially unacceptable but also costly and against the law, maybe just maybe it will keep some from acting this way.....we can only hope...and look on in dismay that it has gotten to this point....

lawref · #41 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 07:56pm

Move on. Don't file charges. If some chick wants to get all huffy about a junior high game, don't let her think you gave it another thought. Tell her to go home and make babies and leave the sports to the men!

Jurassic Referee · #42 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 08:02pm

Quote:

Originally posted by mplagrow
Yes, I am the administrator of a private school. However, I am also an official, so I am just trying to see all sides.

The accepted principle has been outlined in the rulebook for many years. It tells you exactly where the responsibility lies.

Rule 2-8-1NOTE- "The home management or game committee is responsible for spectator behaviour, insofar as it can reasonably be expected to control the spectators".

I think that officials assigned to any high school game should have a "reasonable assurance" that they will not be assaulted by fans. If an incident like the one described above occurs in our officials association's jurisdiction, we would not send officials back to this school until we are 100% sure that there will not be a repeat of the problem. I'm not being smart,but if a school administrator is "up on the fence" over a problem like this, we would just tell him "Fine, see if you can find some officials to do your games while you're up there. The ones down here aren't going to do them until we have complete assurance that something like this will never happen again".

As far as I'm concerned, there isn't two sides when it comes to assaulting officials.

Jurassic Referee · #43 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 08:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by lawref
Move on. Don't file charges. If some chick wants to get all huffy about a junior high game, don't let her think you gave it another thought. Tell her to go home and make babies and leave the sports to the men!

As a lawyer(from your profile), then that would be your advice to someone that asked you to file a civil suit in a case like above?

mplagrow · #44 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 08:10pm

I agree with you that officials should not have to deal with this. As an administrator, I would do everything in my power to make sure this wouldn't happen again, even if it meant clearing the gym for the next three home games to make my point. Not to beat it to death, but here's my point of contention: as an official, and as a person, I don't agree that legal action against a small-minded person is going to help the situation, and I wouldn't do it myself or recommend it. 'Nuff said.

lawref · #45 (**permalink**) Sun Oct 26, 2003, 08:12pm

Jurassic,
There are no damages whatsoever here. It's not a big deal. If he had medical bills, shrink bills, or ANYTHING to suggest there was an injury, that's a different story. This situation doesn't warrant a second thought on the ref's part. Move on, next game.