Fun With Arm Bars ...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Agree. I won't do it more than once for each team.

What do you mean once for each team? What I said applies to the player guarding the ball in that moment. Not once a game and then after that any touch is a foul.

Originally Posted by BillyMac

The single legal "hot stove touch" is not just a local interpretation where JRutledge lives, it's written into the actual NFHS rule for everybody to follow, be it in Connecticut, Illinois, Indiana, Virginia, Alaska, Missouri, Nevada, California, Oregon, Wisconsin, Ohio, Maryland, etc.

Once again, and as usual, when in Rome ...

Where is this interpretation? We were told this years ago and emphasized by our people in Illinois. I have never heard anyone in Indiana explicitly state this but no one calls it as you claim to state it should be called. Should it be? That is a different situation.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

What do you mean once for each team?

If I decide to give a warning (or two), never a given for me in any particular game, I'm not giving warnings for "touch" handchecking all night long.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Where is this interpretation?

Technically, it isn't an interpretation.

It doesn't have to be because it's explicitly and clearly written right there in the rule language, no further interpretation is necessary.

10-7-12: The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler.
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

If it isn't illegal, it's legal.

10-7-12-D allows for a legal single "hot stove" touch.

One "hot stove" touch is legal (if it isn't illegal, it's legal).

A "more than once" hot stove touch is illegal handchecking.

[JRutledge]

Not exactly the example I am discussing, but not trying to go down that rabbit hole right now.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Not exactly the example I am discussing, but not trying to go down that rabbit hole right now.

Pretty much word for word.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

... the "hot stove" touch in which you are allowed one touch of the ball handler and then have to remove that arm immediately and it not be a foul.

And I agree 100% with JRutledge's interpretation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

Pretty much word for word.



And I agree 100% with your interpretation.

The term I used was "hot stove." Described differently than the rule.

Peace

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The term I used was "hot stove."

And so did I.

One touches a hot stove and one immediately withdrawals one's hand because it burns one's hand and is painful.

And one doesn't touch the hot stove a second time because one learns from one's first mistake.

That exactly what the rule tells us is allowed and not allowed.

One single "hot stove" handcheck touch is legal (if it isn't illegal, it's legal).
Curiosity causes one to touch a hot stove.

And one can't "keep ... a hand on the player".
Because one's hand is burned and it's painful.

A "more than once" second hot stove touch is illegal handchecking.
One learns from a past mistake and doesn't want to get burned again.

10-7-12: The following acts constitute a foul when committed against a ball handler/dribbler.
a. Placing two hands on the player.
b. Placing an extended arm bar on the player.
c. Placing and keeping a hand on the player.
d. Contacting the player more than once with the same hand or alternating hands.

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Described differently than the rule.

How is it described differently than the rule?

And I agree 100% with JRutledge's hot stove interpretation ("allowed one touch of the ball handler and then have to remove that arm immediately and it not be a foul").