The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 17, 2021, 08:37pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2014
Location: Kansas
Posts: 633
Challenges in officiating Verticality

Most coaches these days instruct their defenders to "wall up" when applying defensive pressure on a shooter. In that position defender's hands/arms are straight upwards as the shooter tries for goal. A foul is typically not expected to be called in such a contested shot bcz its apparent to everyone that the defender was legally contesting the try for goal. In contrast, when defenders motion their hands/arms go downwards, making a "roof", as the shooter tries for goal we refs are challenged to detect contact--in fact I would assert that a foul is expected to be called. We refs are challenged to instantaneously and correctly differentiate between these two scenarios. Herein lies the challenge in officiating verticality.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 17, 2021, 09:03pm
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 8,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Most coaches these days instruct their defenders to "wall up" when applying defensive pressure on a shooter. In that position defender's hands/arms are straight upwards as the shooter tries for goal. A foul is typically not expected to be called in such a contested shot bcz its apparent to everyone that the defender was legally contesting the try for goal. In contrast, when defenders motion their hands/arms go downwards, making a "roof", as the shooter tries for goal we refs are challenged to detect contact--in fact I would assert that a foul is expected to be called. We refs are challenged to instantaneously and correctly differentiate between these two scenarios. Herein lies the challenge in officiating verticality.

Kansas Ref:

Not to change the subjuect but are you familiar with Mid America Youth Basketball Tour and the assault on the referee in Whichita this past weekend?

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jun 17, 2021, 11:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2018
Location: Rockville,MD
Posts: 1,140
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kansas Ref View Post
Most coaches these days instruct their defenders to "wall up" when applying defensive pressure on a shooter. In that position defender's hands/arms are straight upwards as the shooter tries for goal. A foul is typically not expected to be called in such a contested shot bcz its apparent to everyone that the defender was legally contesting the try for goal. In contrast, when defenders motion their hands/arms go downwards, making a "roof", as the shooter tries for goal we refs are challenged to detect contact--in fact I would assert that a foul is expected to be called. We refs are challenged to instantaneously and correctly differentiate between these two scenarios. Herein lies the challenge in officiating verticality.
Indeed, that is challenging. Officials must distinguish between a defender dropping his arms as a natural result of being contacted in the chest, and the defender bringing down his arms or contacting the offensive player with his arms in a non-vertical position. This is because one is a legal play, and the other is illegal use of hands (NFHS) or a violation of the vertical cylinder (NCAAM, NBA, FIBA).

Mark, I haven't heard about the assault, but it is a clear disgrace.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 18, 2021, 12:19am
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 30,471
It can be a challenging play, but I think this is mostly as a result of the offensive player initiating contact. Once you determine that fact, this play is not as hard. Because if the defender was not likely to contact the shooter, then you can really realize how the contact affected the shooter. Walling up has become common as players at the higher levels like college are doing it to not be in the RA. And as a result, players in the high school level are seeing the tactic and trying it in games with no RA (partially because it can make the shot difficult). But if you do not deem OIC, then this is likely a foul on the defender if they bring their arms down. Bottom line, see the entire play.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 18, 2021, 10:20am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 22,952
Change The Subject ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. View Post
Not to change the subject but are you familiar with Mid America Youth Basketball Tour and the assault on the referee in Wichita this past weekend?
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito View Post
I haven't heard about the assault, but it is a clear disgrace.
See new thread: Wichita Lineman (Glen Campbell, 1968).

https://forum.officiating.com/basket...ll-1968-a.html
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sat Jun 19, 2021 at 03:18pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Fri Jun 18, 2021, 10:35am
Courageous When Prudent
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Hampton Roads, VA
Posts: 14,843
Referee the defense. If you referee the defense instead of staring at the ball you will see:

-- if the defender remains vertical and legal
-- if the defender walks into the offensive player
-- if the defender moves his arms forward and creates illegal contact
-- if the defender raises his arms late and illegally contacts the shooter while raising his arms
-- if the defender moves his arms forward creating illegal contact then returns his arms to vertical to give the illusion he was legal the entire time
-- if the offensive player creates contact that causes the defender's arms to collapse

This is all possible by refereeing the defense.
__________________
A-hole formerly known as BNR
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Wisconsin Assigning Challenges (First Hand Observations) crosscountry55 Basketball 16 Fri Aug 05, 2016 08:10am
Verticality rockyroad Basketball 10 Wed Jan 07, 2009 07:58am
Verticality Nevadaref Basketball 4 Sun Mar 27, 2005 01:42pm
Verticality firstyearref Basketball 20 Sun Mar 16, 2003 06:59am
Softball America challenges USA-ASA Dakota Softball 1 Mon Nov 05, 2001 01:04pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:22am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1