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Get Together ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1043541)

... see how much time is on the clock ... if you do not have that, still get together and put some time on the clock.

Absolutely. As long the time was based on a rules based displayed count (five seconds, ten seconds), or a rules based mental count (three seconds, countdown clock that some officials have in their heads near the end of a period). However it can't be an illegal (not rule based) back tracked post event estimated (guess) count (with one very specific, very rare exception).

JRutledge: Are you paying attention to my wink, wink, nod, nod practical real live game management officiating, because it's not the same as my written exam rulebook officiating.

For the written exam:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1043535)

5-10-1 The referee may correct an obvious mistake by the timer to start or stop the clock properly only when he/she has definite information relative to the time involved. The exact time observed by the official may be placed on the clock. If the referee determines that the clock malfunctioned or was not started/stopped properly, or if the clock did not run, an official’s count or other official information may be used to make a correction.

In a real game:

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1043539)

Definite information includes an official observing (or, wink, wink, nod, nod, claiming that he observed) the scoreboard clock at the exact time of the whistle ...

Coach: "Hey JRutledge. How did you know how much time to put back on the clock?"

JRutledge: "I got together with my handsome partner, BillyMac, and he assured me that he got a peek at the clock out of the corner of his eye when I sounded my whistle."

BillyMac to JRutledge: Wink, wink, nod, nod.

And scene.

The "allowed lag time rule" is long gone, it's ancient history, but when officials are 100% sure that the foul was before the horn, but have no definite knowledge regarding how much time (because it was infinitesimally short), can't the officials count baskets, or allow free throws to be attempted, without time added to the clock and with no rebounders on the lanes?

5-6-2-3: If a foul occurs so near the expiration of time that the timer cannot get the clock stopped before time expires or after time expires, but while the ball is in flight during a try or tap for field goal, the quarter or extra period ends when the free throw(s) and all related activity have been completed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1043541)

... a way to figure out one thing happening over another thing. You likely know if one happened first.

Reminds me of my undergraduate Historical Geology class with Mr. Tolley. Relative ages tell geologists the order of events. Cretaceous rock layers and fossils are younger then Jurassic rock layers and fossils (think Grand Canyon, normally younger sedimentary rock layers are on top of older sedimentary rock layers (Principle of Superposition)). But how much younger, and exactly how old are each? Absolute ages, using radioactive dating techniques (Uranium-Lead, Potassium-Argon, etc.) can tell us actual ages (with numbers)

Case book 5.6.2 Sit D states you cant count the basket if the release of the ball is after the horn.

Thanks everyone who chipped in here. I really love this forum.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 1043546)

Case book 5.6.2 Sit D states you can't count the basket if the release of the ball is after the horn.

5.6.2 SITUATION D: Team A trails 60-59 with just a few seconds remaining in the fourth quarter of play. A1 is fouled in the act of shooting by B1 but time expires before the ball is in flight. A1 is awarded two free throws. The coach of Team B is charged with a technical foul before A1’s attempts. A1 makes: (a) neither throw; (b) one throw; or (c) both throws. When does Team A shoot the free throws resulting from the technical foul? RULING: In (a) and (b), the two free throws for the technical foul are attempted as part of the fourth quarter as the foul occurred before the fourth quarter had ended. In (a), the two free throws for the technical foul will determine if an extra period is necessary. In (b), the one successful free throw ties the game and if either free throw for the technical foul is successful, no extra period is required. In (c), the two successful free throws dictate there will be no extra period. The free throws for the technical foul are not administered as the outcome of the game has been determined. A quarter or extra period does not end until all free throws which could affect the outcome of the game have been attempted and related activity has been completed. (4-41-1; 5-6-3 Exception; 6-7-7)