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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:28pm
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Another strategic lane violation

How would you rule on this similar situation:

Team A up by 1 or 2; shooting the last free throw; 2 seconds to go in the game; team B is out of time outs. Team B needs A to make the shot so they can inbound the ball and get it up the floor without the clock starting. Team A coach tells A1 to miss the shot so the clock starts. Team B coach tells team B to continue to incur lane violations until A1 makes the FT.

How will you rule?
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:42pm
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Re: Another strategic lane violation

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref


How will you rule?
Indy,
Wouldn't this be the sameas another recent, more active post?

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10484

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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:45pm
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i think team B is making a travesty of the game and they should receive a technical foul for delaying the game on purpose. i think after the third incident a technical should be assessed on them. this is a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct at that point.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by yankeesfan
i think team B is making a travesty of the game and they should receive a technical foul for delaying the game on purpose. i think after the third incident a technical should be assessed on them. this is a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct at that point.
How do you know they are doing it on purpose?
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:51pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by yankeesfan
i think team B is making a travesty of the game and they should receive a technical foul for delaying the game on purpose. i think after the third incident a technical should be assessed on them. this is a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct at that point.
Welcome here, yankeesfan.
Yeah, I think unsporting is the path to get to a technical foul. One warning should probably suffice, though, ...before the coach gets whacked.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:52pm
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Re: Re: Another strategic lane violation

Quote:
Originally posted by wizard
Indy,
Wouldn't this be the sameas another recent, more active post?

http://www.officialforum.com/thread/10484
No, it's slightly different!
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 01:56pm
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Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by yankeesfan
i think team B is making a travesty of the game and they should receive a technical foul for delaying the game on purpose. i think after the third incident a technical should be assessed on them. this is a deliberate act of unsportsmanlike conduct at that point.
How do you know they are doing it on purpose?

We observe.
We adjudge.
We act.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref


How do you know they are doing it on purpose?
Here is how I would know:

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref

Team B coach tells team B to continue to incur lane violations until A1 makes the FT.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:06pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Andy
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref


How do you know they are doing it on purpose?
Here is how I would know:

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Team B coach tells team B to continue to incur lane violations until A1 makes the FT.
And what if you don't hear that?

I wanted to put that in my original post...a sitch X and a situation Y.

X being you hear that...
Y being you don't hear that.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:22pm
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Why not just pass on the call? In fact, I'd tell the coach before it happens again that you're not going to make that call and let him possibly win by intentionally breaking the rules. If you KNOW it's intentional, don't let a team gain an advantage not intended by the rules. What's the losing coach going to do, complain to your supervisor that you didn't call a violation against his team?

This isn't all that different in theory than a team fouling to stop the clock. If the fouling team doesn't at least make a minimal attempt to play the ball, or gets too rough, you call an intentional rather than a common foul, so as not to reward the rule-breaking team.

The main difference between these scenarios is that in the second situation, you can't pass on some sort of foul because rougher fouls will foul. In a violation situation, pass on it.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:27pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by stan-MI
...don't let a team gain an advantage not intended by the rules.
Excellent point, Stan!
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:38pm
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Exclamation I don't think we should pass on it.

Quote:
Originally posted by stan-MI
Why not just pass on the call? In fact, I'd tell the coach before it happens again that you're not going to make that call and let him possibly win by intentionally breaking the rules. If you KNOW it's intentional, don't let a team gain an advantage not intended by the rules. What's the losing coach going to do, complain to your supervisor that you didn't call a violation against his team?

This isn't all that different in theory than a team fouling to stop the clock. If the fouling team doesn't at least make a minimal attempt to play the ball, or gets too rough, you call an intentional rather than a common foul, so as not to reward the rule-breaking team.

The main difference between these scenarios is that in the second situation, you can't pass on some sort of foul because rougher fouls will foul. In a violation situation, pass on it.
Stan,
If we pass, we punish a team that may be fouled on the rebound and awarded up to two throws. That could be the leading or trailing team.
No. I think it's better to use the rules instead of avoid them, in this case. Murphy could well be sitting in the stands, ...just waiting.
mick
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:51pm
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I agree with Mick. I do not think this is a situation you pass on. Whether you hear everything from benches about intentionally incurring lane violations or not, that needs to be taken care of.

As officials, these are the little things that we need to watch for and take care of when they happen. There is no question about what the team committing all the lane violations is up too.

After the pattern has been clearly identified, go over and tell the coach that this is a delay of game and that if it happens again, his team will be hit with a technical foul.

As soon as it happens again, "Ring" the coach up for a delay of the game.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 02:56pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Andy
Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref


How do you know they are doing it on purpose?
Here is how I would know:

Quote:
Originally posted by Indy_Ref
Team B coach tells team B to continue to incur lane violations until A1 makes the FT.
And what if you don't hear that?

I wanted to put that in my original post...a sitch X and a situation Y.

X being you hear that...
Y being you don't hear that.
Me (after 2 early entries into the lane by B1): "Hey, what the heck are you doing here?"

B1: "Coach told me to do it until he makes the FT"

Me: "Hey coach! We need to talk!"

Seems pretty simple.
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Old Thu Oct 23, 2003, 03:01pm
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Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Me: "Hey coach! We need to talk!"
Coach: "I never told them that!"
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