The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Sat Mar 27, 2021, 06:38pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
Fun With A Mismatch …

Is White #1 properly charged with an "off ball" foul on this play? Does he foul more than once on this play?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...FOyDDbyA%3D%3D

Two choices: This is not a foul on White No. 1. White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play.

My comment: White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play. Holding foul.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 28, 2021, 07:21am
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Posts: 17,432
Yes, multiple fouls.
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 28, 2021, 11:43am
Administrator
 
Join Date: Sep 1999
Location: Toledo, Ohio, U.S.A.
Posts: 7,837
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Is White #1 properly charged with an "off ball" foul on this play? Does he foul more than once on this play?

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...FOyDDbyA%3D%3D

Two choices: This is not a foul on White No. 1. White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play.

My comment: White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play. Holding foul.


Not quite five seconds into the video is the first Holding Foul by W1 against R1. Get that first PF, a CF in this play, and we do not have the second PF by W1.

Let me add this: In the first PF that was not called. The play started with both W1 and R1 standing with W1 left arm stretched out in front of R1, while this can be construed as Holding it is not Holding until R1 attempts to move through W1's outstretched arm and W1 fails to drop his arm: That is then the Holding Foul.

MTD, Sr.
__________________
Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn.
Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials
International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials
Ohio High School Athletic Association
Toledo, Ohio
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 28, 2021, 01:21pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2019
Location: Mid Ohio Valley
Posts: 11
While adhering to the letter of the letter, I am not crazy about that foul. White is leaning and has a wrap, but Red is standing wider than his shoulders and not attempting much of anything other than standing there. Now, attempt to throw him the ball, or have him attempt to move and be restricted, that's a foul. But just standing there in the post attempting nothing I probably talk to them both about it during the action -- "Easy down here in the post guys!! EASY!" - Then if red tries throwing in there and there is a restriction I would crack it.

Generally speaking, that's how it would be handled in my neck of the woods.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 28, 2021, 01:32pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
Severity Of The Holding ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by MOVBlue View Post
I am not crazy about that foul. White is leaning and has a wrap, but Red is standing wider than his shoulders and not attempting much of anything other than standing there. Now, attempt to throw him the ball, or have him attempt to move and be restricted, that's a foul.
I see your point, but, especially on the far side of the lane, White is definitely holding, actually holding with two arms at one point. After they move over to the near side of the lane the holding is definitely less severe, but it's still there. I wish that Lead had caught the earlier foul.

Give White #1 some credit. He's trying to be an aggressive pest, like a mosquito, or a gnat, defending an opponent almost a foot taller than he. You've got to love his guts, his confidence, and unabashed effort.

Everybody pulls for David, nobody roots for Goliath.” (Wilt Chamberlain)

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Sun Mar 28, 2021 at 04:59pm.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Sun Mar 28, 2021, 06:38pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,522
I saw no displacement or restriction. I just saw a smaller player trying to keep his position.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 09:27am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
Restriction ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I saw no ... restriction.
Watch White's left arm at the 3 second video mark (4:30 game clock mark), preventing Red from moving from the far low post to the high post.

Wasn't whistled, but probably should have been called.

On the other hand, the call that was whistled by the Lead at the end of the video, in the near side low post, was probably questionable.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 29, 2021 at 12:16pm.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 03:34pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Watch White's left arm at the 3 second video mark (4:30 game clock mark), preventing Red from moving from the far low post to the high post.

Wasn't whistled, but probably should have been called.

On the other hand, the call that was whistled by the Lead at the end of the video, in the near side low post, was probably questionable.
The last contact was more egregious than the thing you referenced. I do not see any such restriction or prevention to getting to the next spot. Not saying it would not be a concern, but I see nothing that fits a foul at that time or at the end. Then again maybe there was some previous action that fit this foul. I just did not see it pulling it out of a game we have not seen the entire package.

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 03:42pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
Judgment ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The last contact was more egregious than the thing you referenced. I do not see any such restriction or prevention to getting to the next spot. Not saying it would not be a concern, but I see nothing that fits a foul at that time or at the end. Then again maybe there was some previous action that fit this foul. I just did not see it pulling it out of a game we have not seen the entire package.
Judgment is why we get the big bucks and why JRutledge has worked a lot more state finals (also in multiple sports) than me (zero).

Also why I've never been on the cover of Referee Magazine (although I'm a lot more handsome now that I spend a lot of time wearing a mask).
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 29, 2021 at 04:07pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 04:11pm
Do not give a damn!!
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: On the border
Posts: 29,522
Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Judgement is why we get the big bucks and why you've worked a lot more state finals (also in multiple sports) than me (zero). Also why I've never been on the cover of Referee Magazine.
The back of my head was on the cover. Billy was the main guy on the cover. I just gave him some information and was in the picture.

That being said not saying that people cannot disagree. Maybe there were other plays that fit that action as a foul. I just think if they are standing there and the player in black never tries to get to another spot or reposition, then we are calling a foul on a player that did nothing. Once he moves and cannot get there, blow the whistle. But them playing patty cake does not do it for me. Maybe there is just more to this foul that we are not seeing?

Peace
__________________
Let us get into "Good Trouble."
-----------------------------------------------------------
Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010)
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 04:25pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
JRutledge's Good Side ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
The back of my head was on the cover.
And a fine looking back of the head it was.

If I recall it was the year we went to the stop the clock signal before the held ball signal. With a still cover photo, we couldn't tell if the signal sequence was correct. Care to share JRutledge?

Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
That being said not saying that people cannot disagree.
Olde English proverb: One man's meat is another man's poison.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)

Last edited by BillyMac; Mon Mar 29, 2021 at 04:31pm.
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Mon Mar 29, 2021, 04:33pm
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
George Says He Looks Just Like Me ...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BillyMac View Post
Also why I've never been on the cover of Referee Magazine.
But I have been on a magazine cover.

__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Tue Mar 30, 2021, 09:09am
Esteemed Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Connecticut
Posts: 19,723
IAABO Survey Says …

Disclaimer: For IAABO eyes only. Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

https://storage.googleapis.com/refqu...FOyDDbyA%3D%3D

IAABO International Play Commentary: Correct Answer: White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play.

It is not legal to extend the arms fully or partially in a position other than vertical so that the freedom of movement of an opponent is hindered when contact with the arms occurs. (4-24-6)

On a couple of occasions during this play sequence, White #1 inhibits his opponent's freedom of movement by extending the arm horizontally around the player's waist area. This is a foul and was properly ruled by the Lead official.

Here is the breakdown of the IAABO members that commented on the video: White No. 1 commits multiple fouls on this play 91% (including me). This is not a foul on White No. 1 9%.
__________________
"For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life." (John 3:16)

“I was in prison and you came to visit me.” (Matthew 25:36)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:21am.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1