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-   -   High School Resumption Of Play ... (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105234-high-school-resumption-play.html)

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 09:22am

High School Resumption Of Play ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1040886)
... putting the ball on the floor when the offense is slow getting a thrower FED going to finally get with the times and allow more delay warnings for situations such as this rather than giving us only the option of the ROP procedure?

SC Official's recent thread was mostly about college rules and I didn't want to muck up his thread with a high school question so here's my separate thread.

After reading SC Official's thread, I decided to do some deep "dumpster diving" into the rulebook and casebook to get my mind clear regarding high school resumption of play procedures because I haven't given it much thought lately.

Regarding free throws, it is my belief that there are two different ways to address the situation of a player (shooter) not making one's self available for a free throw (in the semicircle).

If the free throw is after a timeout or intermission, we use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...).

But if the free throw isn't after a timeout or intermission, and the player (shooter) does not make one's self available for a free throw, it's an immediate delay of game player technical foul (no (ball on the floor, no yada, yada, yada ...).

Now let's move on to a player not making one's self available for a throwin.

If the throwin is after a timeout or intermission, we use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...).

If the delayed throwin is not after a timeout or intermission, do we still use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...)?

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

SC Official Mon Jan 11, 2021 09:27am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040890)
If the delayed throwin is not after a timeout or intermission, do we still use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...)?

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available or following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

Yes.

The "or" in 4-38 is very important.

FED, in all its genius, does not allow a delay warning for teams being slow getting out of a timeout, or for repeatedly being slow getting a thrower-in during normal action.

(And, my thread was not intended to be NCAA-specific. I have no problem if the mods merge.)

bob jenkins Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:51am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040890)

Now let's move on to a player not making one's self available for a throwin.

If the throwin is after a timeout or intermission, we use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...).

If the delayed throwin is not after a timeout or intermission, do we still use the resumption of play procedure (ball on the floor, yada, yada, yada ...)?


While the ACTION is the same, it's not the "ROP procedure."

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 10:59am

Resumption-Of-Play Procedure ???
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1040893)
While the ACTION is the same, it's not the "ROP procedure."

Why not?

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available OR following a time-out or intermission (unless either team is not on the court to start the second half) as in 7-5-1 and 8-1-2. The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

Isn't the red highlighted above an example of an independent clause, a group of words that contains both a subject and a predicate that expresses a complete thought and can stand alone as a sentence.

(My high school English teacher, Mr. Baumgartner, would be so proud if me.)

BigT Mon Jan 11, 2021 01:18pm

What is the violation?

Team doesn't want to come get the ball what violation do you call? DOG, turnover, what?

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 02:19pm

Put In Play Or Placed On The Floor ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BigT (Post 1040896)
What is the violation? Team doesn't want to come get the ball what violation do you call?

There is no violation. Here's what a high school official is supposed to do:

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available ... The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

7-5-1: When a team does not make a thrower available ... the resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the whistle to indicate play will resume. In each situation:
a. The ball must be put in play if Team A is ready or it must be placed on the floor.
b. The throw-in count must begin and if a violation occurs, the procedure will be repeated for Team B.
c. Following a violation by one team only, if that team continues to delay when authorized to make a throw-in, it is a technical foul.
d. Following a violation by both teams, any further delay by either team is a technical foul.

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 02:29pm

Let The Party Begin ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040901)

4-38: The resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay in putting the ball in play when a throw-in team does not make a thrower available ... The procedure results in a violation instead of a technical foul for initial delay in specific situations.

7-5-1: When a team does not make a thrower available ... the resumption-of-play procedure is used to prevent delay. The administering official will sound the whistle to indicate play will resume. In each situation:
a. The ball must be put in play if Team A is ready or it must be placed on the floor.
b. The throw-in count must begin and if a violation occurs, the procedure will be repeated for Team B.
c. Following a violation by one team only, if that team continues to delay when authorized to make a throw-in, it is a technical foul.
d. Following a violation by both teams, any further delay by either team is a technical foul.

What if the throwin team is ready to go but the opposing (defending) team isn't ready?

I believe that, after loudly sounding our whistle, we give the ball to the thrower, and let the party begin.

I think that 7-5-1 could be worded better, not only regarding the use of the throwin resumption-of-play procedure at all times (not just after a timeout or intermission), but also regarding the throwin team being ready to go but the opposing team not be ready.

It states: When a throw-in team does not make a thrower available ... It doesn't say what to do if the defending team doesn't make defenders available.

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 03:23pm

Not Being Available To Rebound ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040890)
... deep "dumpster diving" into the rulebook and casebook to get my mind clear regarding high school resumption of play procedures because I haven't given it much thought lately. Regarding free throws, it is my belief that there are two different ways to address the situation of a player (shooter) not making one's self available for a free throw (in the semicircle) ...

Let's change it up to the non-shooting team players not being available (after a timeout or intermission), not refusing (like the casebook play), just not being available because they're still dilly-dallying in their team huddles.

What happens next? Give the ball to the shooter and give a delayed violation signal? Then what happens (make or miss)? Team technical foul?

2018-19 Casebook Revisions 8.1.4b SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and is at the free-throw line. Team B refuses to occupy the first marked lane spaces. RULING: A technical foul shall be charged to Team B for unsporting conduct. The lane shall be cleared and A1 shall be given the warranted free throws. Team A’s coach will then designate who will shoot the free throws for the technical foul. The technical foul free throws will be shot. The ball will then be administered at the division line to Team A. (10-4-5)

bob jenkins Mon Jan 11, 2021 06:26pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040905)
Let's change it up to the non-shooting team players not being available (after a timeout or intermission), not refusing (like the casebook play), just not being available because they're still dilly-dallying in their team huddles.

What happens next? Give the ball to the shooter and give a delayed violation signal? Then what happens (make or miss)? Team technical foul?

2018-19 Casebook Revisions 8.1.4b SITUATION B: A1 is fouled and is at the free-throw line. Team B refuses to occupy the first marked lane spaces. RULING: A technical foul shall be charged to Team B for unsporting conduct. The lane shall be cleared and A1 shall be given the warranted free throws. Team As coach will then designate who will shoot the free throws for the technical foul. The technical foul free throws will be shot. The ball will then be administered at the division line to Team A. (10-4-5)

See 10.2.1A

And, you are correct on the "or" wording in ROP -- I don't have my old books anymore to see if that's an addition or if I misread it for 25 years.

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 07:59pm

Always Listen To bob ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1040911)
See 10.2.1A.

Nice citation. Thanks bob jenkins.

10.2.1 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled by B1 during an unsuccessful try and is awarded two free throws. Team B requests and is granted a charged 60-second time-out. Team B disregards the 15-second warning signal and the signal ending the time-out and is still huddling with their coach at the end of the charged time-out. RULING: The official shall administer the first free throw using the resumption-of-play procedure and a violation occurs if it is missed. If two B players are not in the required position when the official is ready to put the ball in play for the substitute throw, a delay of game technical foul will be assessed. If the first attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. (9-1-2; 10-1-5b)

BillyMac Mon Jan 11, 2021 08:32pm

Nothing Happens ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040912)
10.2.1 SITUATION A: A1 is fouled by B1 during an unsuccessful try and is awarded two free throws. Team B requests and is granted a charged 60-second time-out. Team B disregards the 15-second warning signal and the signal ending the time-out and is still huddling with their coach at the end of the charged time-out. RULING: The official shall administer the first free throw using the resumption-of-play procedure and a violation occurs if it is missed. If two B players are not in the required position when the official is ready to put the ball in play for the substitute throw, a delay of game technical foul will be assessed. If the first attempt is good, the same procedure is used for the second. (9-1-2; 10-1-5b)

Does this mean that if all the free throws (one, one and one, two, or three) are good, that "nothing" happens (other than a possible five second violation on the subsequent throwin)?

bob jenkins Tue Jan 12, 2021 07:58am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040913)
Does this mean that if all the free throws (one, one and one, two, or three) are good, that "nothing" happens (other than a possible five second violation on the subsequent throwin)?

The T is for delaying the game. If all the FTs are made, has the game been delayed?

BillyMac Tue Jan 12, 2021 09:35am

Seventh Heaven ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1040920)
The T is for delaying the game. If all the FTs are made, has the game been delayed?

No. And officials like it when free throws go in, by either team, no rebounding fouls. Imagine how easy it could be to officiate a game where every free throw or field goal try attempt goes in. We would all get home in time to watch the beginning of Murder, She Wrote.


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