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Lights go out during close play

As a neutral fan, I am very curious as to your opinions on how this was handled. There are two videos embedded in the article

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usa...t-bad-beat/amp

I really do not understand why they did not just stop play. I honestly do not get that at all. This is one of the most critical parts of the game. The officials did not do this themselves. Stop play and put the ball in play where the incident took place and let the result take place. No different than a fan coming onto the court or some other unfortunate stoppage.

Peace

I agree (at least in general terms) with the conference statement: (someone else can insert the statement instead of just the link)

https://twitter.com/ByEliLederman/st...475437062?s=20

The conference statement admits a wrong, but offers no remedy.

The Night The Lights Went Out In Louisiana ...

Apologies to Vicki Lawrence (1972).

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon....500_SY300_.jpg

Unfortunate Stoppage ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1040843)

Stop play and put the ball in play where the incident took place and let the result take place. No different than a fan coming onto the court or some other unfortunate stoppage.

7.1.2 SITUATION C: A1 is dribbling in Team A’s backcourt when the ball is deflected by B1. The ball gets away and contacts a child who is (a) walking inbounds (on the playing court); The official sounds the whistle. RULING: In (a), the ball is not out of bounds since the person contacted, the child, was inbounds. However, for safety reasons the official should stop play and resume from the point of interruption. Team A, the team last in control, will be awarded a throw-in at a spot nearest to where the ball was located when play was interrupted. (4-36; 7-2-1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040845)

The conference statement admits a wrong, but offers no remedy.

I don't know that there is any remedy. Sun Belt officials now know explicitly what they should do in the future. The officials used poor judgment in the situation, but Little Rock was not prevented from still executing a play and getting off a shot.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040845)

The conference statement admits a wrong, but offers no remedy.

What remedy could they offer?

And this isn't like a situation that many have ever encountered, particularly with 5 seconds left in a game. Yes, they should have handled it differently. But, with 5 seconds on the clock, and an event that was completely unexpected, I don't put much blame on the officials. They had to decide to kill it or not kill it in 1-2 seconds. Once they let it play out, I'm not sure they could go back and replay the 5 seconds.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1040853)

And this isn't like a situation that many have ever encountered, particularly with 5 seconds left in a game ...

I've had lights go out a few times in forty years, but never with five seconds left in the game (or a period).

I hate the gyms with metal halide lights that need to be warmed-up before reaching optimal lighting.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1040853)

Once they let it play out, I'm not sure they could go back and replay the 5 seconds.

Why not? FWIW, one tweet said that the two teams were playing again the next night, so it wouldn't be a matter of inconvenience. If the officials on the second night were not the same crew, the expense of another set of game fees? Because ALR got a shot off with the lights on? Because this would be like an upheld protest and the conference doesn't allow protests?

I'm just speculating, and, BTW, I am not blaming the officials, simply responding to the conference's determination that an error had occurred.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040856)

Why not?

Do-overs are seldom legally allowed, and thus, quite rare in high school basketball, they are also probably quite rare in college basketball as well.

Not like when we were kids playing "pitcher's hand" baseball in the sandlot.

Note: "Pitcher's hand" was a rule set that allowed us to play baseball with a lot fewer than eighteen players. Batters could only hit the ball to their pull field, and instead of throwing a ball to first base on a ground ball, the fielders would throw the ball to the pitcher (acting as a first baseman). Lots of do-overs prevented lots of fights, and prevented the kid with the ball, or the bat, or a glove, from quitting and going home.

If a replay would not be "legally allowed," please cite a rule barring a 5-second replay in these highly unusual circumstances.

I am not saying the five seconds should be replayed, but I am not convinced that it could not be done. I'm completely ignorant about NCAA in general and Sun Belt rules in particular; the closest HS rule I can think of is 5-4-3, if the situation would be treated as a protest: "The NFHS Basketball Rules Committee does not recognize protests."

So my question ("why not") remains, not to be argumentative, but to get a reasonable answer. My last contribution to this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040858)

Yes, it "could be" done -- but, it sets a very bad precedent. Hey -- s*** happens -- that's part of sports. Next time, don't be down by 2 points with 5 seconds to play.

Clocks Operated Properly ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040858)

If a replay would not be "legally allowed," please cite a rule barring a 5-second replay in these highly unusual circumstances.

Most legal high school do-overs involve clocks not operating properly, and seconds (usually with a definite knowledge count by the officials), or split seconds, being changed on the game clock. The clock operated properly here. The officials allowed the game to continue and the clock to run.

Like they allowed the game to continue and the clock to run when they missed a travel call or a foul call earlier in the game.

No do-overs allowed in this situation.

If they allowed the do-over, then the other team would be complaining, and probably rightfully so.

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1040858)

Please cite a rule that would allow it to be replayed.

For The Good Of the Cause ...

10.2.4 SITUATION: Immediately following a goal or free throw by Team A, A1 inbounds the ball to A2 and A2 subsequently throws the ball through A’s basket. RULING: The following procedure has been adopted to handle this specific situation if it is recognized before the opponents gain control or before the next throw-in begins: (a) charge Team A with an unsporting technical foul; (b) assess a delay-of-game warning for interfering with the ball after a goal; (c) cancel the field goal; (d) cancel any common foul(s) committed and any non-flagrant foul against A2 in the act of shooting; and (e) put “consumed” time back on the clock. COMMENT: If there is no doubt the throw-in was a result of confusion, the entire procedure would be followed except no unsporting team technical foul would be charged. A team technical would be assessed if the team had received a previous delay warning. This procedure shall not be used in any other throw-in situation in which an official administers the throw-in and a mistake allows the wrong team to inbound the ball. (4-47-3; 7-6-6; 10-1-5d)

5.10.1 SITUATION D: There are six seconds left on the clock in the fourth quarter and the ball is out of bounds in the possession of Team A. The throw-in by A1 touches the official on the court and then goes across the court and out of bounds. The timer permits two seconds to run off the clock. What recourse does the coach of either team have in such situation? RULING: Either coach may step to the scorer’s table and request a 60-second time-out and have the referee come to the table. The coach is permitted to do this under provisions of the coach’s rule. The referee shall come to the sideline and confer with one or both coaches and the timer about the matter; and if the referee has definite knowledge that there were six seconds on the clock when the ball was awarded to Team A for the throw-in, it is the responsibility of the referee to have the two seconds put back on the clock. The timer and scorer and the other official(s) can be used by the -referee to gain definite information. If there is no mistake or if it cannot be rectified, the requesting team will be charged with a 60-second time-out. (5-11-4 Exception b; 5-8-4; 10-5-1c)

5.10.1 SITUATION B: Team A leads by one point when they inbound the ball in their backcourt with 12 seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. A1's throw-in pass is to A2 who dribbles in the backcourt until the horn sounds. The trail official does not make a 10-second ruling because he/she "lost the count." RULING: The game is over. The clock may not be reset as there are no rule provisions to do this. If the count was not accurate or was not made, it cannot be corrected. There is no provision for the correction of an error made in the official's accuracy in counting seconds.

2009-10 SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040855)

I've had lights go out a few items in forty years, but never with five seconds left in the game.

Yeah, that’s suspicious. It favored the home team. Imagine that.

Officiating controversy notwithstanding, if I’m the Sun Belt Conference, I’m initiating an investigation.

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God Divided The Light From The Darkness (Genesis 1:4) ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040855)

I've had lights go out a few items in forty years, but never with five seconds left in the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1040863)

Yeah, that’s suspicious. It favored the home team. Imagine that.

It amazes me that we have a large number of schools, especially middle schools, especially Catholic middle schools, here in my little corner of Connecticut, that don't have any type of guards or locks on their gymnasium light switches.

They have light switches like we all have in our living rooms.

Anybody can come along and just turn off the lights.

It's often just somebody leaning on the wrong wall, at the wrong time, in the wrong place.

The reality is that this is a situation that is clearly not covered in the rules. This is precisely what rule 2-3 was created for. Even so, to say there is a single right answer to the situation and to criticize the officials for how they handled it is unfair. There is simply nothing in the rules that says how this should be handled and to expect them to know what the league office might want when they had merely seconds to make a decision when others had hours to consider it is.

I think you could justify just about any ruling within the actual rules. And, the lights didn't go completely out. You could still see the entire time, albeit only with red lights.

I Wear My Sunglasses At Night (Corey Hart, 1984) ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1040870)

And, the lights didn't go completely out. You could still see the entire time, albeit only with red lights.

Cameras are notoriously bad with low lighting. How many times has one used a camera thinking that it was bright enough to take a photo with no flash, when a flash was actually needed?

The first time I worked a game at the Hartford Civic Center (now the XL Center), home of NHL Whalers, University of Connecticut basketball, and home away from home of the NBA Boston Celtics, I was in awe of how (too bright) the court was.

I'm guessing that in real life, it was actually a little brighter on the court than what we've seen on the video replay.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.m...=0&w=290&h=164

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1040876)

...

I'm guessing that in real life, it was actually a little brighter on the court than what we've seen on the video replay.

The way the players on the court kept on playing as if they could see fine, leads me to think the same.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1040880)

The way the players on the court kept on playing as if they could see fine, leads me to think the same.

I'm sure it was a distraction, but it wasn't "dark". Who's to say the other team didn't have the offense forced to an area they were happy with and a restart would let them set up a new designed play. Stopping the game and restarting at 5 seconds has as many problems as not stopping it. Either way, this was a bad situation and someone was going to complain.

Sense Of Concentration ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1040884)

I'm sure it was a distraction ...

Yes it certainly was, but is was only for moment and all players, both offense and defense, seemed to almost immediately regain their sense of concentration, with nobody "giving up" (as we've occasionally observed where free throw rebounders get the wrong instructions (or get confused) from the lead, and for situations like that we have specific casebook interpretations.

Back when we were players (as most of us were at one time), how often did our coaches tell us ignore an "odd time" horn and to play until we heard a whistle.

For IAABO Eyes Only …

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fan10 (Post 1040842)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ftw.usa...t-bad-beat/amp

Disclaimer: Below is not a NFHS interpretation, it's only an IAABO International interpretation which obviously doesn't mean a hill of beans to most members of this Forum.

IAABO International Play Commentary
The house lights go down and red lights turn on for a few seconds before the ending of Little Rock's game at Louisiana. After the Trojans' last-second 3-pointer is no good, coach Darrell Walker is livid at the officials.

IAABO International Correct Answer: The officials should have stopped the game and re-administered the play from the point of interruption. This is certainly a challenging play for officials. Officials should be aware; they have the authority to stop the game whenever unusual circumstances present themselves, especially if there is a safety concern. (Rule 5-8-2d) At times, officials may ignore some circumstances (such as an inadvertent horn) and allow play to continue if it has no impact on play. (Casebook 2.11.3). Unusual circumstances often lead to the referee to need to make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules. (Rule 2-3) In this situation, because of the time left in the game when the incident occurred, the best course of action would be for officials is to stop play immediately when the lights became an issue. When situations like this occur, officials should be quick to note the time remaining on the clock when play was stopped and identify where the throw-in spot should be when play resumes. In this situation, 5 seconds should be placed on the clock, and play should be resumed on the sideline in front of the scorer's table.

Note: About 80% of IAABO members that commented on the video thought that the officials should have stopped the game and re-administered the play from the point of interruption.

5-8-2-D: Time-out occurs and the clock, if running, must be stopped when an official: Stops play: For any other situations or any emergency.

2.11.3 Situation: When may the scorer signal? Ruling: If the scorer desires to call attention to a player who is illegally in the game, he/she may signal the official when the ball is in control of that player’s team. If it is for a substitution, the scorer may signal when the ball next becomes dead and the clock is stopped. If it is for conferring with an official, he/she may signal when the ball is dead. If the scorer signals while the ball is live, the official should ignore the signal if a scoring play is in progress. Otherwise, the official may stop play to determine the reason for the scorer’s signal.

2-3: The referee must make decisions on any points not specifically covered in the rules.

Personal note: I'm interpreting this to mean that the officials should not have re-administered the play after the game had "ended", but rather they should have whistled to stop the game when the lights went out. Since they didn't do anything at five seconds, it was too late to do anything at zero (horn and light) seconds.