Late block charge in ku creighton

[thedewed]

Garrett takes it into Creighton big and creates contact, was called a block and 1, huge play, announcer insists it is a charge, what do you all think? Defender was in the circle but was there first. Just curious what your take would be. I tend to agree with ESPN's rob hummel

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by thedewed

Garrett takes it into Creighton big and creates contact, was called a block and 1, huge play, announcer insists it is a charge, what do you all think? Defender was in the circle but was there first. Just curious what your take would be. I tend to agree with ESPN's rob hummel

If a secondary defender is in the restricted area it doesn’t matter that he was “there first.”

[Rich]

Originally Posted by thedewed

Garrett takes it into Creighton big and creates contact, was called a block and 1, huge play, announcer insists it is a charge, what do you all think? Defender was in the circle but was there first. Just curious what your take would be. I tend to agree with ESPN's rob hummel

Doesn't seem to be one single officiating word in this post.


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[Raymond]

Originally Posted by thedewed

Garrett takes it into Creighton big and creates contact, was called a block and 1, huge play, announcer insists it is a charge, what do you all think? Defender was in the circle but was there first. Just curious what your take would be. I tend to agree with ESPN's rob hummel

Did the contact occur in the restricted area?

Did the offensive player lead with his knee or elbow or foot?

Was he a secondary defender who established initial legal guarding position in the restricted area?

Did the official point to the restricted area when making the call?

If you answer those questions, you will know if the call was correct.

Did the announcer discuss any of those aspects of the play when giving his opinion? Those are all things officials have to determine In the heat of the moment so the announcer, who has time to sit and watch a replay and has time to think about what he's going to say, should be addressing those issues.

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[JRutledge]

Does anyone have the time of this play?

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Does anyone have the time of this play?



Peace

I'm sure if a basketball official had been watching the game and asking about the play they would have included the time

It's possible basketball officials did see the play in question and thought there was no controversy.

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[sdoebler]

It was a block and it wasn't close. That is coming from a huge Creighton fan.

[thedewed]

Originally Posted by SC Official

If a secondary defender is in the restricted area it doesn’t matter that he was “there first.”

not true unless the rule has changed. you guys are more current than I on that, but the restriction on a secondary defender in the circle doesn't restrict a defender that is in the circle from going straight up and attempting to block the shot, which was the case here. the driver clearly created all contact on someone waiting at the goal for him.

the rulebook doesn't make clear whether that can be a charge? or just a non-call. In other words, the rule book, at least from 2019, and my guess is it hasn't changed, this is NCAA and that is what I have as fave on my computer, simply says being in the circle doesn't prevent a vertical shot blocker from attempting to block. So it seems clear in that case it isn't a 'block', but is it anything?

Time was 1:39 2nd half, and was a huge play in the game KU won by 1. And this isn't whining, I'm a KU fan, just thought I'd run it by you all.

Also somewhat related, would you all agree that just because there is a big collision between driver and defender, you don't necessarily need a whistle? The rules say a defender has the right to a position on the floor if squared up facing driver and both feet down initially. Let's say a defender is there several steps, but dribbler is able to get upper torso past the defender and they both go down. Pretty clear to me it isn't a block, in that the defender isn't obligated to move. In that case I don't think it's a charge either as the dribbler got upper torso past defender. There back in the day I'd have nothing. Thoughts?

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by thedewed

not true unless the rule has changed. you guys are more current than I on that, but the restriction on a secondary defender in the circle doesn't restrict a defender that is in the circle from going straight up and attempting to block the shot, which was the case here. the driver clearly created all contact on someone waiting at the goal for him.

the rulebook doesn't make clear whether that can be a charge? or just a non-call. In other words, the rule book, at least from 2019, and my guess is it hasn't changed, this is NCAA and that is what I have as fave on my computer, simply says being in the circle doesn't prevent a vertical shot blocker from attempting to block. So it seems clear in that case it isn't a 'block', but is it anything?

Time was 1:39 2nd half, and was a huge play in the game KU won by 1. And this isn't whining, I'm a KU fan, just thought I'd run it by you all.

Also somewhat related, would you all agree that just because there is a big collision between driver and defender, you don't necessarily need a whistle? The rules say a defender has the right to a position on the floor if squared up facing driver and both feet down initially. Let's say a defender is there several steps, but dribbler is able to get upper torso past the defender and they both go down. Pretty clear to me it isn't a block, in that the defender isn't obligated to move. In that case I don't think it's a charge either as the dribbler got upper torso past defender. There back in the day I'd have nothing. Thoughts?

Well, it is true, but the restricted area only applies to grounded defenders. So I am not sure why you are even bringing up the RA. I just watched the replay and RA has absolutely nothing to do with this play or why the L called the foul. The L got fooled by the defender swiping with his arm but he didn't make any contact with the airborne shooter. This was an incorrect call, in my judgment, but the RA had nothing to do with it.

[thedewed]

Originally Posted by SC Official

Well, it is true, but the restricted area only applies to grounded defenders. So I am not sure why you are even bringing up the RA. I just watched the replay and RA has absolutely nothing to do with this play or why the L called the foul. The L got fooled by the defender swiping with his arm but he didn't make any contact with the airborne shooter. This was an incorrect call, in my judgment, but the RA had nothing to do with it.

Interesting, and understand I only stay interested as a fan, not an official, but that means a secondary defender in the RA is actually advantaged under the rules if he jumps and stays vertical, then he would be if he stayed down as a statue and got run into. The latter would be a charge.

Are you saying that the proper call is a no-call? or a charge, if we assume no contact other than vertical with the defender.

Robbie Hummel was beside himself on the play that it shouldn't have been a foul on D

[thedewed]

Originally Posted by sdoebler

It was a block and it wasn't close. That is coming from a huge Creighton fan.

So far, we have 1 says block, 1 says not, and I say certainly not a block, probably nothing because it sounds like in any event that isn't going to be a charge. rule isn't clear to me on that point.

As a KU fan, I take that game and run. We aren't very good this year.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by thedewed

Time was 1:39 2nd half, and was a huge play in the game KU won by 1. And this isn't whining, I'm a KU fan, just thought I'd run it by you all.

I just saw the play. This is an interesting play and is not an RA play not when the defender "walls up." I will post it later tonight as I have a game and do not have time to get this up I do not believe.

Update: Well, I kind of lied. It did not take too long to make the video.



Peace

[Raymond]

I believe the official is calling a foul for the swing of the right hand by the defender which hits the left arm of the shooter.

But without seeing what the official presented to the table that's just a guess on my part.

Most officials hit their hips at the spot if they're calling a blocking foul.

Two important elements of the play were not included in the original post: defender leaving his feet and the defender swinging at the shot.

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[Rich]

I'm not even sure why this is controversial.

[SC Official]

Originally Posted by Rich

I'm not even sure why this is controversial.

It’s certainly not a “block charge” play despite the title of this thread.