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-   -   The Upcoming Season WAYGD? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/105123-upcoming-season-waygd.html)

RefsNCoaches Wed Aug 19, 2020 02:51pm

The Upcoming Season WAYGD?
 
WAYGD? What are you gonna do?

Obviously things are still fluid around the country with respect to HS team sports...Football getting ready to kick off....Volleyball playing....A friend of mine who is a V football official attended his daughters V VB contest and they made spectators wear masks. In game participants and officials did not but bench people did. Okay, I guess that's good...also a limited number of tickets available to each player's family and they were required to check in and have name checked off the list before allowing entry.

So we are all curious what's going to happen with hoops...but what are YOU going to do? Do you have concerns? Have you decided you'll bypass officiating this year? Mask, no mask, mask with the gonzo nose/regular whistle, regular mask and the handheld whistle?

WAYGD?

Me...I'm still up in the air. I don't really want to wear mask officiating and refuse to use handheld whistles as I think they suck and you can't really hear them.

Where's your head at right now in August with respect to officiating basketball?

LRZ Wed Aug 19, 2020 02:57pm

I'm in a high-risk category, I think, simply because of my age, so I may forego the season. As this was likely to be my final year, in any event, I may "retire" early.

Raymond Wed Aug 19, 2020 03:04pm

Every college conference with which I'm associated has postponed all sports until January 1st at the earliest, and as of now high school basketball in my state starts December 28th. Therefore I have quite a while to make a decision. If college basketball happens this schoo year, I will most likely officiate. I'm still on the fence about high school because I'm not totally enamored with all the facilities I would be working at.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BillyMac Wed Aug 19, 2020 03:10pm

State Sports Plans ...
 
From the NFHS (as of August 19, 2020)

Alaska (First contests for fall sports moved from August 14 to August 20)

Arizona (Golf – August 17; Cross Country and Swimming and Diving – August 24; Badminton, Fall Soccer and Volleyball – August 31; and Football – September 7)

California (December 2020 or January 2021)

Colorado (Boys Golf – August 3; Boys Tennis – August 10; Cross Country – August 12; Football – February 22; Field Hockey, Gymnastics, Boys Soccer, Unified Bowling and Girls Volleyball – March 1)

Connecticut (August 17)

Delaware (Winter Sports – December 2020; Fall Sports – February 2021; The exact start dates will be decided upon at the September DIAA Board of Directors meeting.)

District of Columbia (January 4)

Florida (August 24)

Illinois (Boys/Girls Golf, Girls Tennis, Boys/Girls Cross Country, and Girls Swimming and Diving – August 10; Boys Soccer, Football and Girls Volleyball – Spring 2021)

Iowa (The IHSAA announced a revised seven-week regular season football schedule running from August 28 through October 9.)

Hawaii (Cheerleading, Cross Country, Football and Girls Volleyball – January 2021)

Georgia (The Georgia High School Association postponed the start of football season until September 4; while permitted to continue practice, competitive cheerleading competitions are delayed until November 21.)

Kentucky (August 24; The golf season schedule is unchanged.)

Louisiana (Cross Country and Swimming and Diving – August 31; Volleyball – September 8; and Football – October 8)

Maine (September 8)

Maryland (Fall and winter competition seasons postponed during the first semester)

Massachusetts (September 14)

Michigan (Cross Country, Golf, Soccer, Tennis and Volleyball – August 12; Football – Spring 2021; Competition guidelines for Volleyball, Boys soccer and Lower Peninsula Girls Swimming & Diving will be announced August 19.)

Minnesota (Cross Country, Tennis, Soccer, and Swimming and Diving – August 17; Football and Volleyball – Spring 2021)

Mississippi (August 10; Football starts August 17)

Nevada (Winter sports January 2; Fall sports February 20; Spring sports April 3)

New Hampshire (September 8)

New Jersey (September 14)

New Mexico (The NMAA, through Governor recommendations, canceled contact sports competition for the fall. As a result, the 2020 football and soccer seasons have been switched to the spring semester.)

New York (Not before September 21)

North Carolina (Cross Country and Volleyball – November 4; Swimming and Diving – November 23; Basketball – December 7; Boys Soccer and Lacrosse – January 11; Football – February 8; Boys Tennis, Girls Soccer and Softball – March 1; Baseball, Girls Tennis, Track and Field, and Wrestling – April 12; and Cheerleading – May 1)

Ohio (If, through Governor recommendations, football is permitted competition, the OHSAA feature a six-game season with a postseason will last no later than November 21. Golf, Tennis, Volleyball and Cross Country are permitted to have contests. Decisions on Field Hockey and Soccer will be made at a later date.)

Oregon (Basketball, Swimming and Diving, and Wrestling – December 28; Football, Soccer, Volleyball and Cross Country – February 22)

Pennsylvania (August 24)

Rhode Island (September 14)

South Carolina (Girls Golf, Swimming and Diving, and Girls Tennis – August 17; Cross Country and Volleyball – August 24; Competitive Cheer and Football – September 8.)

Texas (August 3 for conferences 1A-4A football and volleyball; conferences 5A-6A start September 7)

Vermont (Football programs are allowed to hold a 7-on-7 touch football season (not the NFHS-recognized 6-, 8-, 9- or 11-player contact football); Volleyball matches must be held outside – September 8)

Virginia (December 14)

Washington (September 7)

West Virginia (August 17)

Wisconsin (Fall Sports – August 17; Winter Sports – November 23; Alternate Fall Sports – February/March, per WIAA Release; and Spring Sports – April 19)

The following states will not play football this fall:
California
Colorado
Delaware
District of Columbia
Hawaii
Illinois
Maryland
Michigan
Minnesota
Nevada
New Mexico
North Carolina
Oregon
Vermont
Virginia
Washington

SC Official Wed Aug 19, 2020 03:11pm

I will be on the court as soon as I get assigned games to work as long as I don't have to wear a mask or use an electronic whistle.

johnny d Wed Aug 19, 2020 11:09pm

I have been working AAU tournaments every weekend in Illinois and Wisconsin for the last month, and have at least a few more weekends scheduled. If and when college games start, I will be there, for high school games, I was trying to do as few as possible before covid, now I have an excuse to do none.

JRutledge Thu Aug 20, 2020 07:28am

Well my NAIA conferences at this point are going as scheduled. The HS will start a little later and no tournaments will take place, which is usually the first week of the season. Season for high school got moved back, but we do not know when they are able to play games at this point. All the NCAA stuff got moved back as well, so not much information on schedule as of right now there either. So as Raymond said, I have some time. Right now I am going forward. But the issue this year is football for both high school and college start late winter so not sure how that is going to change things.

I will be at a camp for the next two weekends. A lot of little protocols to work those games. I will see how I feel.

Peace

SNIPERBBB Thu Aug 20, 2020 11:10am

I'm out if we have to wear a mask. I can't hardly breathe under exertion with a mask just walking briskly without concentration in breathing. It's like walking through a sauna and nearly chokes me. Was born with cleft pallet/lip. After multiple surgeries things aren't quite right and I have to consciously breathe through my nose.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Aug 20, 2020 12:55pm

Mark, last game officiated/umpired was Wed, Mar. 11th: college softball in Florida. By the time we were having lunch on our way home on Fri., Mar. 13th, his entired H.S. baseball and H.S. and college softball schedule had been canceled.

While there has been youth baseball and softball tournaments and a couple of college sponsered H.S. basketball team camps this Summer, Mark, Jr., choose not to umpire baseball and softball (nor officiate basketball) this Summer because he did not want to risk being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus; that is not fear talking, that is science talking.

Yes, he lost a considerable revenue stream this Spring, he lost 5 Div. I conference weekends and a possible NCAA Div. II or Div. III Regional. But we let science prevail and not politics. We are seeing the results of not listening to the STEM professionals.


Earlier this week in interviews on CNN:

Dr. Deborah Birx: https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/20...s/coronavirus/

and

Dr. Anthony Fauci: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...cdb547684b2645


We have seen out breaks of COVID-19 because of large gatherings where the wearing of masks and physical/social distancing protocols were not followed: Just think of President Trumps political rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the number of his staffers that tested positive for COVID-19 and Herman Cain not only contracting COVID-19 but dying from it.

Now look at how these protocols are being ingnored on college campuses, by the rank-and-file college students. Colleges are proving unable to insure that its students will follow safety protocols and K-12 public school districts are seeing outbreaks of COVID-19. And let us not forget Sturgis, South Dakota; how long will it before we see the consequences of that gathering.

Those in power at the highest levels listened to money instead of listening to the STEM experts. And our country is now suffering from it. I am reminded of the meme that has made the rounds of social media: "At the beginning of a disaster movie is a scientist whom the politicians ignore."

MTD, Sr.

SNIPERBBB Thu Aug 20, 2020 02:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1039414)
Mark, last game officiated/umpired was Wed, Mar. 11th: college softball in Florida. By the time we were having lunch on our way home on Fri., Mar. 13th, his entired H.S. baseball and H.S. and college softball schedule had been canceled.

While there has been youth baseball and softball tournaments and a couple of college sponsered H.S. basketball team camps this Summer, Mark, Jr., choose not to umpire baseball and softball (nor officiate basketball) this Summer because he did not want to risk being infected with the SARS-CoV-2 virus; that is not fear talking, that is science talking.

Yes, he lost a considerable revenue stream this Spring, he lost 5 Div. I conference weekends and a possible NCAA Div. II or Div. III Regional. But we let science prevail and not politics. We are seeing the results of not listening to the STEM professionals.


Earlier this week in interviews on CNN:

Dr. Deborah Birx: https://www.cnn.com/videos/health/20...s/coronavirus/

and

Dr. Anthony Fauci: https://www.cnn.com/world/live-news/...cdb547684b2645


We have seen out breaks of COVID-19 because of large gatherings where the wearing of masks and physical/social distancing protocols were not followed: Just think of President Trumps political rally in Tulsa, Oklahoma, the number of his staffers that tested positive for COVID-19 and Herman Cain not only contracting COVID-19 but dying from it.

Now look at how these protocols are being ingnored on college campuses, by the rank-and-file college students. Colleges are proving unable to insure that its students will follow safety protocols and K-12 public school districts are seeing outbreaks of COVID-19. And let us not forget Sturgis, South Dakota; how long will it before we see the consequences of that gathering.

Those in power at the highest levels listened to money instead of listening to the STEM experts. And our country is now suffering from it. I am reminded of the meme that has made the rounds of social media: "At the beginning of a disaster movie is a scientist whom the politicians ignore."

MTD, Sr.

Cain traveled a lot in the weeks prior to the rally . Personally wouldn't rak medical advice from someone that told his AIDS patients they could have sex with anyone if theirblevels fell below detection thresholds and been wrong about every outbreak since and every step of this outbreak. And neither of those have treated patients in years.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039415)
Cain traveled a lot in the weeks prior to the rally . Personally wouldn't rak medical advice from someone that told his AIDS patients they could have sex with anyone if theirblevels fell below detection thresholds and been wrong about every outbreak since and every step of this outbreak. And neither of those have treated patients in years.


Herman Cain was not a medical doctor. He was a business man.

MTD, Sr.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 07:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1039419)
Herman Cain was not a medical doctor. He was a business man.

MTD, Sr.

Did I say was a doctor? I said he traveled a lot prior to Tulsa so linking his death to Tulsa is disingenuous. The rest of the rest of the comments were in reference to Lord Pope Fauci, the Oft Wrong and Pompous and fellow unlicensed Dr. Birx.

LRZ Fri Aug 21, 2020 08:56am

If Cain was healthy when he went to the Tulsa rally and became sick shortly afterwards, it is a fair, reasonable inference that he may have been infected there. Open to disagreement, but certainly not disingenuous (deceitful, dishonest) at all.

From whom do you get your medical advice? And, please, let's not descend to the level of schoolyard name-calling.

JRutledge Fri Aug 21, 2020 09:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039421)
Did I say was a doctor? I said he traveled a lot prior to Tulsa so linking his death to Tulsa is disingenuous. The rest of the rest of the comments were in reference to Lord Pope Fauci, the Oft Wrong and Pompous and fellow unlicensed Dr. Birx.

I think we can make several infurances by what happened to Cain if he died and we are not aware of the others he could have infected. We know he had the virus, his family confirmed that several times. So even if he did not get it at that rally, he could have given it to someone that was there and many were not wearing a mask at all. I personally would be a little concerned if I found out I was around someone that had the virus and did not do things to help prevent the spread. Then that person dies as well? Sorry, very much a decent assumption that this person did not care about who he could hurt by not at doing the very least.

Peace

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 09:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039424)
I think we can make several infurances by what happened to Cain if he died and we are not aware of the others he could have infected. We know he had the virus, his family confirmed that several times. So even if he did not get it at that rally, he could have given it to someone that was there and many were not wearing a mask at all. I personally would be a little concerned if I found out I was around someone that had the virus and did not do things to help prevent the spread. Then that person dies as well? Sorry, very much a decent assumption that this person did not care about who he could hurt by not at doing the very least.

Peace

You'd have to know you had the virus or exposed to be concerned about spreading it. I doubt he would of went if he thought he was infected.

As for information, I work for a hospital and her bombarded with information every day.

LRZ Fri Aug 21, 2020 10:32am

I volunteer at a hospital and I too am bombarded with information, none of which is as cavalier about the dangers of COVID-19 as you seem to be.

I'm also aware of how little was initially known about coronavirus, a plausible explanation for erroneous prognostications and medical advice and information that later changed as we learned more.

You handle medical wastes, I recall you saying in another thread. You have also referred to nurses in a way that suggests that you are neither a doctor nor a nurse. Regardless of your official job title, it's clear from your posts that you are in the "exaggerated peril" or "hoax" camp. Some of us prefer to be more cautious.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 11:05am

Nothing wrong with being cautious. I'm a guy that if I'm not comfortable with a situation, I'm out. You have to way the risks And determine what's appropriate for you. Ive been saying from the start that if you're in the retirement window or a cancer patient or suffer immune system deficiencies you need to be careful and I'm going to avoid you as much as possible.

I'm not the one forcing covid patients in nursing homes then getting a book deal out of it.

JRutledge Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:05pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039425)
You'd have to know you had the virus or exposed to be concerned about spreading it. I doubt he would of went if he thought he was infected.

As for information, I work for a hospital and her bombarded with information every day.

There were reports that other people at that rally discovered they had the virus after that rally. So either way, it goes he got it and the fact we do not know where is a problem. So to say let us not worry about that without some level of caution is silly. My wife works in a nursing home and is in a nursing home that has patients with Covid-19 brought to their building. Not everyone is dying, but people have gotten sick. So why put us in harm's way without some better information of how you can contract this virus?

Peace

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:27pm

Patriotic ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039430)
... if you're in the retirement window or a cancer patient or suffer immune system deficiencies you need to be careful and I'm going to avoid you as much as possible ...

We don't wear badges that identify us as such. How would you possibly know to avoid us?

If you're a "patriotic" person (President Trump's words), or a caring person, you would totally avoid non-immediate family, avoiding grocery shopping, pharmacy, doctor's office, place of employment, mass transient, elevators, etc., or wear a mask when doing such.

Retirees, cancer patients, and immune system patients, may not have the luxury of sheltering in place, they may have to go to work to earn a living, or take mass transit, or go to the doctor, or shop for food, or pick up a prescription. They may not own a car. They may not have family and friends to help them do such.

And if a healthy person catches the virus from one (who may be presymptomatic or asymptomatic) they (who may also be presymptomatic or asymptomatic) may take it back to family who may be retirees, cancer patients, or immune system patients.

And sometimes otherwise healthy non-elderly people get the virus and get really sick, maybe get put on a ventilator, and maybe die, or maybe have possibly long-lived health problems.

My daughter is a physician, my other daughter is a nurse (who does COVID testing on weekends). They tell me to socially distance, wear a mask, wash my hands, and have discouraged me from going back to the gym, or to church. Combined they have five health related college degrees (including an M.S. in public health, and, of course, an M.D.). I'm also pretty scientifically literate (two college degrees in science) myself. What they tell me is pretty much in line with what the medical and research professionals (NIH, CDC, WHO) now tell us.

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:37pm

Testing And Contact Tracing ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039425)
You'd have to know you had the virus or exposed to be concerned about spreading it.

How would one know that one had the virus, or was exposed to the virus? One could be presymptomatic or asymptomatic. Testing (especially asymptomatic testing) and contact tracing isn't where it should be right now. People wait in line for hours to be tested (why my daughter, the nurse, volunteers to work at testing sites on her weekends), and people wait several days for the results. Under these conditions contact tracing is almost worthless.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 12:43pm

We do have treatments out there. But the odds of avoiding it forever aren't good unless it fades out the way SARS-1 did. We get put in harm's way all the time. We lost two weeks of basketball in January because of flu. Again it's about managed risk 4/5 deaths are age 65+. 45-64 makes up nearly the rest with a less than 6000 of remaining age groups.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:02pm

Well around here we don't go around making out with strangers. More urban areas might be used to people being on top of each other but around here we give people space.

In a normal year, you could pick out sick people or those susceptible by seeing a mask. Now everyone wears one .

We have personal delivery and shopper services everywhere so there isn't a reason why anyone that isn't a forgotten recluse to do without anything. Which outside of work, golf and basketball I'm a recluse.

Raymond Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039436)
We do have treatments out there. But the odds of avoiding it forever aren't good unless it fades out the way SARS-1 did. We get put in harm's way all the time. We lost two weeks of basketball in January because of flu. Again it's about managed risk 4/5 deaths are age 65+. 45-64 makes up nearly the rest with a less than 6000 of remaining age groups.

The 45-64 age group makes up a significant percentage of high school officials in football and basketball. So even if high school sports do start up in the near future, there's a good chance a large number of officials will not make their services available.

Why do people always feel like they need to tell other adults that there are risks in life, like other adults are stupid and don't know that? Or like other adults have never taken risks and applied risk analysis to their decisions?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:04pm

It's Science ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039426)
... the "exaggerated peril" or "hoax" camp.

I'm really getting tired of people interviewed on television, or in the newspaper, who don't wear a mask and then cite that the purpose of a mask is to protect one's self, that masks can't filter out tiny virus particles, and that they should be able to control their own health.

They're partly correct, virus particles are extremely small, and masks can do very little (recent research shows that they can help a little) to protect one's self.

Why don't they get the real scientific reason for wearing a mask?

One wears a mask to protect others.

The mask can filter out the larger respiratory droplets exhaled, sneezed, or coughed out by those infected with the virus (many or whom may be presymptomatic or asymptomatic and not realize that they are infected).

Filtering out these larger respiratory droplets means that the virus particles within these larger respiratory droplets are also filtered out. Masks can decrease the virus particles from spreading to those are at high risk, or to healthy individuals who may then spread it to those at high risk.

These individuals show their scientific ignorance by falsely stating the purpose of masks. What else are they scientifically ignorant about?

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.l...=0&w=263&h=173

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:22pm

The Expendables ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039436)
... 4/5 deaths are age 65+. 45-64 makes up nearly the rest ...

That's me, and and a lot of other people. Are we expendable? Should we be ignored? Since we're going to die sooner rather than later just toss us to the side of the road like unwanted trash, or maybe put us on an iceberg and let us float away into oblivion.

Since masks do little (maybe some, but not a lot, may not stop the virus but may decrease the devastating effects of the virus) to protect us, we count on others to wear masks to protect us. It's the patriotic and caring thing to do.

Thank you for wearing a mask, even if it does fog up your glasses.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...oe4Elderly.jpg

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:34pm

Wouldn't It Be Nice (The Beach Boys, 1966) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039437)
In a normal year, you could pick out sick people or those susceptible by seeing a mask.

It would be nice if we could all have such keen observational skills, seeing disease by just looking at somebody.

Reminds me of the movie cult classic They Live, where Rowdy Roddy Piper's character can identity disguised aliens by looking at them though special sunglasses.

Great movie. We'll never know why Rowdy Roddy Piper didn't get an Academy Award nomination.

If you haven't seen it, go down to your local Blockbuster Video and rent the VHS tape, and don't forget the microwaveable popcorn.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.x...=0&w=300&h=300

johnny d Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:49pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039438)

Why do people always feel like they need to tell other adults that there are risks in life, like other adults are stupid and don't know that? Or like other adults have never taken risks and applied risk analysis to their decisions?

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

I get what you are saying, but there are numerous studies indicating that the vast majority of adult Americans are mathematically illiterate, especially in their understanding and knowledge of statistics. In fact there was recently a study published (researchers from Stanford) showing that most Americans significantly overestimate their chances of getting infected and of having serious coronavirus related illness or death. There study shows the reasons for this are math illiteracy, mass hysteria in the news media, and government actions are the leading causes of the overestimation. Unfortunately, most American adults are stupid when it comes to math-related issues. I do agree that most people do not want to have other people they do not know telling them what they should or should not be doing.

Raymond Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039441)
It would be nice if we could all have such keen observational skills, seeing disease by just looking at somebody.

Reminds me of the movie cult classic They Live, where Rowdy Roddy Piper's character can identity disguised aliens by looking at them though special sunglasses.

Great movie. We'll never know why Rowdy Roddy Piper didn't get an Academy Award nomination.
...

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.x...=0&w=300&h=300
...

I hate myself for dropping into your off topic valley, but I was trying to think of the name of that movie the other day after I saw his name in an article.


Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

johnny d Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039439)
I'm really getting tired of people interviewed on television, or in the newspaper, who don't wear a mask and then cite that the purpose of a mask is to protect one's self, that masks can't filter out tiny virus particles, and that they should be able to control their own health.

They're partly correct, virus particles are extremely small, and masks can do very little (recent research shows that they can help a little) to protect one's self.

Why don't they get the real scientific reason for wearing a mask?

One wears a mask to protect others.

The mask can filter out the larger respiratory droplets exhaled, sneezed, or coughed out by those infected with the virus (many or whom may be presymptomatic or asymptomatic and not realize that they are infected).

Filtering out these larger respiratory droplets means that the virus particles within these larger respiratory droplets are also filtered out. Masks can decrease the virus particles from spreading to those are at high risk, or to healthy individuals who may then spread it to those at high risk.

These individuals show their scientific ignorance by falsely stating the purpose of masks. What else are they scientifically ignorant about?

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.l...=0&w=263&h=173


It has also been shown that often times wearing masks actually increases the risk of becoming infected. Many people are under the false impression that wearing a mask is an extremely effective deterrent. If you are not wearing an N95 mask, then your mask is only a slightly effective deterrent. Hygiene, especially hand washing, social distancing, and not touching your face repeatedly are all much better deterrents than mask wearing. Unfortunately, because of the false sense of security people get while wearing a mask, they tend to exhibit more reckless behavior. They social distance less, they wash or sanitize their hands less often, and touch their faces much more often. Combined these increased bad behaviors often outweigh any benefit derived from wearing the mask in the first place.

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 01:57pm

Stay Away ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039434)
We don't wear badges that identify us as such. How would you possibly know to avoid us?

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.s...=0&w=300&h=300

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:14pm

Citations Please ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by johnny d (Post 1039444)
It has also been shown that often times wearing masks actually increases the risk of becoming infected. Many people are under the false impression that wearing a mask is an extremely effective deterrent. If you are not wearing an N95 mask, then your mask is only a slightly effective deterrent. Hygiene, especially hand washing, social distancing, and not touching your face repeatedly are all much better deterrents than mask wearing. Unfortunately, because of the false sense of security people get while wearing a mask, they tend to exhibit more reckless behavior. They social distance less, they wash or sanitize their hands less often, and touch their faces much more often. Combined these increased bad behaviors often outweigh any benefit derived from wearing the mask in the first place.

Sounds quite logical, but citations please.

Outweigh by exactly how much? How much more often?

I actually touch my face far less while wearing a mask, maybe not my eyes, but definitively my nose and mouth.

Sometimes logic and science don't agree. Many believe that the period of a pendulum (the time it takes to swing) depends on the height from which the pendulum is dropped, or on the mass of the pendulum weight, but neither has absolutely no effect on the period, only the length of the pendulum string effects it's period in the real world (for non-excessive angles).

Most people logically think that a feather will be less attracted in the real world by Earth's gravity than a lead weight. Not so, the only reason the feather falls slower on an Earth with an atmosphere is due to aerodynamic drag and surface area. Back in 1971 Apollo astronaut David Scott, while on the surface of the Moon (with no atmosphere) dropped an aluminium geological hammer and a falcon feather, and they hit the ground simultaneously. Galileo did something similar in 1589, dropping cannonballs of various masses off the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.v...=0&w=215&h=162

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:35pm

The Plague Has Left The Building ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039443)
I hate myself for dropping into your off topic valley, but I was trying to think of the name of that movie the other day after I saw his name in an article.

It's actually not as far off topic as one would think. Imagine if we could all easily identify all those with the coronavirus (meaning much easier than our current level of testing and contact tracing). The healthy would easily be able to avoid those infected. Those infected would easily be able to avoid the healthy. We could all quarantine, or wear masks, when necessary and appropriate. The "plague" would soon end.

This scene alone should have earned Rowdy Roddy Piper an Academy Award nomination.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/PpL3zDeKmNs" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039426)
I volunteer at a hospital and I too am bombarded with information, none of which is as cavalier about the dangers of COVID-19 as you seem to be.

I'm also aware of how little was initially known about coronavirus, a plausible explanation for erroneous prognostications and medical advice and information that later changed as we learned more.

You handle medical wastes, I recall you saying in another thread. You have also referred to nurses in a way that suggests that you are neither a doctor nor a nurse. Regardless of your official job title, it's clear from your posts that you are in the "exaggerated peril" or "hoax" camp. Some of us prefer to be more cautious.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1039432)
There were reports that other people at that rally discovered they had the virus after that rally. So either way, it goes he got it and the fact we do not know where is a problem. So to say let us not worry about that without some level of caution is silly. My wife works in a nursing home and is in a nursing home that has patients with Covid-19 brought to their building. Not everyone is dying, but people have gotten sick. So why put us in harm's way without some better information of how you can contract this virus?

Peace

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039445)

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039440)
That's me, and and a lot of other people. Are we expendable? Should we be ignored? Since we're going to die sooner rather than later just toss us to the side of the road like unwanted trash, or maybe put us on an iceberg and let us float away into oblivion.

Since masks do little (maybe some, but not a lot, may not stop the virus but may decrease the devastating effects of the virus) to protect us, we count on others to wear masks to protect us. It's the patriotic and caring thing to do.

Thank you for wearing a mask, even if it does fog up your glasses.

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...oe4Elderly.jpg

You should ask New York and Pennsylvania's governor's that question. I point those numbers out to show who are the at risk groups.

The caring thing to do is get the healthy people back to work ASAP. N We're doing decades worth of damage to the economy. Not to mention mention what it's doing to the youth. Suicide statistics are growing more alarming .

Raymond Fri Aug 21, 2020 02:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039450)
You should ask New York and Pennsylvania's governor's that question. I point those numbers out to show who are the at risk groups.



The caring thing to do is get the healthy people back to work ASAP. N We're doing decades worth of damage to the economy. Not to mention mention what it's doing to the youth. Suicide statistics are growing more alarming .

Might come as a surprise to some people, but even before this virus came along there were a lot of people in our nation's workforce who are not healthy or have comorbidities. So unless everybody takes it seriously when it comes to social distancing and wearing masks when you can't, it's going to be hard for businesses and schools to open up and stayed manned without outbreaks. And you can't put those business-killing attitudes and behaviors on the governors of Pennsylvania and New York. The cavalier approach to fighting this virus started way back in February and was constantly reinforced for another 4 months.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 03:10pm

Normal ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039450)
The caring thing to do is get the healthy people back to work ASAP. We're doing decades worth of damage to the economy. Not to mention mention what it's doing to the youth.

100% agree. But if we get back to "normal" work and school too soon, and in a careless manner, the house of cards will come tumbling down again. Lots of sick workers, sick consumers, sick teachers, sick students, and sick and overworked health care workers, as well as the additional dead, will not allow us to sustain a "normal" economy and education system for very long.

What is so hard about wearing a mask? Yesterday I had a young cashier at the drug store tell me that all this mask wearing may lead to a less impactful annual flu season.

I sure hope that he's right. Imagine COVID and influenza giving us a one-two punch this coming winter.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.a...=0&w=324&h=196

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 03:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039453)
100% agree. But if we get back to "normal" work and school too soon, and in a careless manner, the house of cards will come tumbling down again. Lots of sick workers, sick consumers, sick teachers, sick students, and sick and overworked health care workers, as well as the additional dead, will not allow us to sustain a "normal" economy and education system for very long.

What is so hard about wearing a mask? Yesterday I had a young cashier at the drug store tell me that all this mask wearing may lead to a less impactful annual flu season.

I sure hope that he's right. Imagine COVID and influenza giving us a one-two punch this coming winter.

Respiratory viruses have not cared about masks in the past.

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 03:41pm

Man, Woman, Birth, Death, Infinity ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039454)
Respiratory viruses have not cared about masks in the past.

Tell that to Dr. Ben Casey and Dr. James Kildare.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.P...=0&w=300&h=300

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Q...=0&w=300&h=300

Vince Edwards and Richard Chamberlain didn't go to medical school and only played doctor characters on television, but their characters both earned M.D. degrees, and the shows had medical consultants.

They mostly wore the masks to prevent the spread of bacteria and fungi, but masks do have some effect on viruses.

For many years, scientists weren’t sure whether wearing a mask was effective at preventing the spread of viruses. However, recent studies suggest they can help. One 2013 study looked at how masks could help people with the seasonal flu limit spreading it when they exhale droplets containing the virus. Overall, researchers found masks led to a more than threefold reduction in how much virus people sprayed into the air.

Another study, analyzing data from thousands of Japanese schoolchildren, found that “vaccination and wearing a mask reduced the likelihood of developing seasonal influenza.”

Importantly, researchers also found that flu rates were lower when masks were paired with proper hand hygiene.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 03:43pm

The other thing about masks is that like vaccines, many people don't like something that only works part of the time. At best that makes it seem like a placebo and allows a false sense of security and you do things that you wouldn't do had you noybworn the masks.

If it showed 100% effectiveness, we wouldn't be having this debate. Many conservatives early on offered that if everyone wore masks and we got to keep everything running, we'd of done it. If I was really worried about the virus, I'd be looking for a gas mask or a closed system respirator but those tend to freak people out.

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 04:15pm

174,255 Deaths ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039456)
Many conservatives early on offered that if everyone wore masks and we got to keep everything running, we'd of done it.

I almost believe this. If we did this (everyone wore masks) from the initial (February, 2020) get go, the "plague" wouldn't be over, but we'd be in a much better place right now.

BillyMac Fri Aug 21, 2020 04:59pm

PPE Shortage ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039459)
If we did this (everyone wore masks) from the initial (February, 2020) get go, the "plague" wouldn't be over, but we'd be in a much better place right now.

Easy for me to say.

Back in February, 2020, medical and research professionals believed that asymptomatic spread (I don't even remember hearing about presymptomatic spread back then) did not occur with the novel coronavirus. And they were worried that if everyone started wearing masks that there wouldn't be enough to go around for the health care workers that were taking care of coronavirus patients (remember back then there was a PPE shortage), and for patients that actually had the virus and its symptoms who could actively spread the virus to others.

SNIPERBBB Fri Aug 21, 2020 06:07pm

If you recall, people were being told they didn't work at that time. The shows I listened to while the virus was still only in China that were already doing research was saying that n95s would be better to get in case it came here.

BillyMac Sat Aug 22, 2020 12:19pm

175,366 Deaths ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1039465)
If you recall, people were being told they didn't work at that time ...

What's they? Didn't work doing what? Not sure what the point is?

Yes, medical and research professionals made some early mistakes, but these mistakes weren't quite as simple as some make them out to be, these scientists were not a bunch of nincompoops (a word often used by my German grandmother).

I do recall medical and research professionals saying (incorrectly) that masks wouldn't be necessary (except for those infected and for health care workers), not that they didn't work, but because they believed that asymptomatic spread did not occur with the novel coronavirus.

I also recall medical and research professionals saying (somewhat incorrectly) that anything short of an N-95 mask (like a cloth surgical style mask) would do no good protecting one's self (didn't worry about protecting others because they didn't believe in symptomatic spread).

Scientists have known for a long time (certainly pre-COVID-19), that cloth surgical-style masks were somewhat effective at preventing the spread of viruses exhaled in respiratory droplets.

In any case, "at that time" (early 2020), they were incorrect about asymptomatic/presymptomatic spread, and they may have been somewhat incorrect that cloth surgical style masks would do absolutely no good protecting one's self (as it turns out they may somewhat reduce the devastating effects of the virus).

Other than finger pointing, why live in the past, science marches on with further research.

That's how science works. Aristotle believed in the Theory of Spontaneous Generation. Pasteur proved Aristotle wrong. Science was wrong for 2000 years, but it moves forward, it moves on, that's science.

https://www.azquotes.com/picture-quo...n-21-36-87.jpg

This novel coronavirus was a brand new human disease in late 2019/early 2020. We learn new things about this novel virus all the time.

Science now tells us to socially distance, wear a mask, and to wash our hands.

It's the best scientific advice we have right now, that advice may eventually change, but until that time we should follow the most up to date advice that we get.

Socially distance (minimum six feet) when possible; when not possible to socially distance wear a mask (for those who medically can) to protect others (and possibly one's self); and wash our hands (or use 80% ethanol or 75% isopropyl alcohol hand sanitizer) often.

It's science, and it's our best bet to get through this in the short term, with as little suffering and death as possible, and to get our economy, education, and health care systems back on track, on track with all of us healthy enough so these systems don't collapse again.

It's the same science that may eventually come up with a safe effective COVID-19 vaccine, or much more effective COVID-19 treatments.

Or we can do nothing, back to work, back to school, no social distancing, no masks, no hand washing, no testing, no contact tracing, treat it like the flu, but with no vaccine. Allow Darwin's Natural Selection to take over, with active immunity building up, and the fittest surviving after a lots of suffering and death and ups and downs with our economy, education, and health care systems.

That's also science.

I chose the former.

Anybody 100% all in with the later? I'm 66, have a heart condition, and have already survived one heart attack. Should I find myself an iceberg? Anybody want to go 50/50 on buying an iceberg for two?

I would like to spend a little more time with my four grandsons before I go to the happy basketball court in the sky. Is it too much for me to ask everyone to wear a mask (I'm sorry that your glasses fog up)?

https://roguerocket.com/wp-content/u...mask.jpg?w=740

crosscountry55 Sun Aug 23, 2020 07:33am

Quote:

Originally Posted by RefsNCoaches (Post 1039395)
WAYGD? What are you gonna do?

Obviously things are still fluid around the country with respect to HS team sports...Football getting ready to kick off....Volleyball playing....A friend of mine who is a V football official attended his daughters V VB contest and they made spectators wear masks. In game participants and officials did not but bench people did. Okay, I guess that's good...also a limited number of tickets available to each player's family and they were required to check in and have name checked off the list before allowing entry.

So we are all curious what's going to happen with hoops...but what are YOU going to do? Do you have concerns? Have you decided you'll bypass officiating this year? Mask, no mask, mask with the gonzo nose/regular whistle, regular mask and the handheld whistle?

WAYGD?

Me...I'm still up in the air. I don't really want to wear mask officiating and refuse to use handheld whistles as I think they suck and you can't really hear them.

Where's your head at right now in August with respect to officiating basketball?


We got off topic.

I have a military restriction that is making the decision for me. We are in a category 3 (of 4) health protection condition (we call it HPCON) in my area and until that falls a notch, I can’t gather in groups larger than 10 and cannot participate in any group exercise. So by logical interpretation, that precludes me from officiating. I told my assignor as much and he graciously understood. From the tenor of one of his recent emails, I get the feeling about half of our normal group of folks who work summer and fall basketball aren’t willing to or able to work right now, and he’s not at all ashamed to tell his customer leagues that he can’t help them when he can’t. We’re indispensable to the game and the league coordinators know it. Unless they budge from their historical $25-30 per game fees, few of us will be wooed.

If the HPCON is lowered, I’ll open myself back up to being assigned and carry on. I’d probably wear a mask into and out of the facility, during halftime, etc. But not while actually working. I would if the sport didn’t involve a whistle, but with a whistle it’s just not practical. I’d also probably sanitize frequently and follow other state/league guidelines that are being put out.

If I take it seriously and follow the precautions and rules, I’d say my chances of acquiring the virus wouldn’t be all that much higher than picking it up while going to pick up food at a restaurant or shopping at a grocery store. That’s why I’d be comfortable coming back.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

LRZ Sun Aug 23, 2020 09:05am

Whether or not I wear a mask while refereeing is only part of the equation. Isn't the other part of the problem that players will not be wearing masks and thus projecting droplets, to which officials will be exposed?

When I shop or pick up take-out, the employees are always masked. That is different from officiating, where players are not masked, and that would make the risk greater.

"It's the best scientific advice we have right now, that advice may eventually change, but until that time we should follow the most up to date advice that we get." BillyMac, that is the wisest thing you have ever said on this forum.

BillyMac Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:18am

It Eventually Had To Happen ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039480)
"It's the best scientific advice we have right now, that advice may eventually change, but until that time we should follow the most up to date advice that we get." BillyMac, that is the wisest thing you have ever said on this forum.

Thanks. Even a guy who still wears a black belt while officiating basketball games can occasionally get lucky and come up with a good post. It was my first good post in fifteen years and over 18,000 posts. Statistics and the law of averages said that it eventually had to happen. Don't hold your breath until the next one.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.T...=0&w=316&h=179

BillyMac Sun Aug 23, 2020 10:33am

Projecting Droplets ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039480)
Isn't the other part of the problem that players will not be wearing masks and thus projecting droplets, to which officials will be exposed?

Great point. Now I'm concerned if I'm only wearing one of those "whistle pouches".

Concerned about me getting the virus and passing it to somebody else. Concerned about getting sick and suffering. Concerned about long lasting health effects after recovery. Concerned about dying. Concerned about dying while physically separated from family.

But it's "for the kids"? Sorry. Probably not today. Maybe later.

There's online learning. How about online officiating from the comfort and safety of my computer in my secret underground COVID shelter?

Zoom has a great "Raise Your Hand" feature, it's just like signaling to stop the clock.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.S...=0&w=166&h=164

bucky Mon Aug 24, 2020 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039481)

I never quite understood the clock reference. It may be correct twice a day but at any other time, which is a huge majority of the time, it is incorrect, so much so, it is rendered useless. Ergo, no need for the clock at all.:cool:

BillyMac Mon Aug 24, 2020 02:36pm

Get Off Of My Iceberg (With Apologies To The Rolling Stones) ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1039497)
I never quite understood the clock reference. It may be correct twice a day but at any other time, which is a huge majority of the time, it is incorrect, so much so, it is rendered useless.

Are you calling me useless?

http://img1.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb2...oe4Elderly.jpg

JRutledge Mon Aug 24, 2020 03:11pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1039497)
I never quite understood the clock reference. It may be correct twice a day but at any other time, which is a huge majority of the time, it is incorrect, so much so, it is rendered useless. Ergo, no need for the clock at all.:cool:

It does not mean you are right most of the time. Not sure what is hard about understanding this one. ;)

Peace

BillyMac Mon Aug 24, 2020 07:05pm

Connecticut ...
 
It was just announced that all of our local IAABO board meetings in 2020-21 will be held via Zoom, probably starting in October or November.

That doesn't give me much confidence that high school basketball will be played in Connecticut this winter.

On a more positive note, I noticed that Halloween candy is on sale at Walmart, CVS, and Stop and Shop.

Instead of X-raying candy for needles and pins, parents will be asking for candy COVID testing.

JRutledge Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039503)
It was just announced that all of our local IAABO board meetings in 2020-21 will be held via Zoom, probably starting in October or November.

That doesn't give me much confidence that high school basketball will be played in Connecticut this winter.

On a more positive note, I noticed that Halloween candy is on sale at Walmart, CVS, and Stop and Shop.

Instead of X-raying candy for needles and pins, parents will be asking for candy COVID testing.

Well, that is all anyone is doing, Zoom meetings. I have been to more Zoom meetings in the last few months that I have met with anyone like I would for work. And I was at a camp this past weekend. I think large gatherings are not going to be the choice until it is necessary (meaning the games).

Peace

Camron Rust Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039423)
If Cain was healthy when he went to the Tulsa rally and became sick shortly afterwards, it is a fair, reasonable inference that he may have been infected there. Open to disagreement, but certainly not disingenuous (deceitful, dishonest) at all.

No, it isn't a reasonable inference, at least not any more than the dozen other places he may have been in the week or two prior to becoming sick. Where did he have dinner the day before he left for the rally? Where did he buy his groceries the day after he returned??

Camron Rust Mon Aug 24, 2020 11:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1039480)
Whether or not I wear a mask while refereeing is only part of the equation. Isn't the other part of the problem that players will not be wearing masks and thus projecting droplets, to which officials will be exposed?

When I shop or pick up take-out, the employees are always masked. That is different from officiating, where players are not masked, and that would make the risk greater.

It would be possible to officiate a game while maintaining a 6' distance (or more).

JRutledge Tue Aug 25, 2020 01:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039506)
No, it isn't a reasonable inference, at least not any more than the dozen other places he may have been in the week or two prior to becoming sick. Where did he have dinner the day before he left for the rally? Where did he buy his groceries the day after he returned??

The inference is that he did not take it seriously or as a threat to his health and the health of others. He did not wear a mask there, he likely did not wear one any other place where people were around. We will never know exactly the place, but we know he went to a rally and wore nothing and openly thought it was not something to worry about (social media Tweets, even after he died ;)).

So if he got sick not taking it seriously, there are likely others that have been in the same situation and have died. Actually there are people in some positions that openly said it was not a big deal, later to find out they died too.

Peace

LRZ Tue Aug 25, 2020 05:56am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039506)
No, it isn't a reasonable inference, at least not any more than the dozen other places he may have been in the week or two prior to becoming sick. Where did he have dinner the day before he left for the rally? Where did he buy his groceries the day after he returned??

It is reasonable, perhaps not the only one, but one possibility among a number. Or he might have been exposed and infected on several of those occasions. But if he were mask-less in those other venues as well, the point is made, regardless.

BillyMac Tue Aug 25, 2020 11:35am

Cough It Up ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039482)
Great point. Now I'm concerned if I'm only wearing one of those "whistle pouches".

Like when I'm about to hand the ball to an inbounder for a front court endlne throwin and he unintentionally coughs directly into my unmasked face.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.w...=0&w=287&h=162

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.E...=0&w=357&h=177

Raymond Tue Aug 25, 2020 02:21pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039506)
No, it isn't a reasonable inference, at least not any more than the dozen other places he may have been in the week or two prior to becoming sick. Where did he have dinner the day before he left for the rally? Where did he buy his groceries the day after he returned??

I've been going to grocery stores on a regular basis since the pandemic started. I've been going to restaurants since the end of May. In both of those situations I am easily able to socially distance myself. Cain was not socially distancing himself at the convention, nor were an overwhelming majority of the people who attended, not to mention no other activity he did prior or after would have him around that many people at one time in one space. So no, it is not reasonable nor intellectually honest to state his chances to have caught it at the Tulsa rally were not greater than at other venues, businesses, or facilities.

ChuckS Tue Aug 25, 2020 03:16pm

Also the time of exposure is very important. Time spent at the rally was way more than time spent at a supermarket.

JRutledge Tue Aug 25, 2020 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1039513)
Also the time of exposure is very important. Time spent at the rally was way more than time spent at a supermarket.

Exactly. I have also been to many restaurants and not once was I next to anyone but my wife or son on a regular basis. Not had the virus symptoms and my wife is a medical worker that spends many days with virus patients.

Peace

Camron Rust Wed Aug 26, 2020 02:10am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039512)
I've been going to grocery stores on a regular basis since the pandemic started. I've been going to restaurants since the end of May. In both of those situations I am easily able to socially distance myself. Cain was not socially distancing himself at the convention, nor were an overwhelming majority of the people who attended, not to mention no other activity he did prior or after would have him around that many people at one time in one space. So no, it is not reasonable nor intellectually honest to state his chances to have caught it at the Tulsa rally were not greater than at other venues, businesses, or facilities.

You're assuming what else he did or did not do in the days before an after the rally. Unless you know something I don't, you can't make any claim that it was more likely from the rally. Maybe he visited a nursing home in NYC.

Raymond Wed Aug 26, 2020 07:54am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039515)
You're assuming what else he did or did not do in the days before an after the rally. Unless you know something I don't, you can't make any claim that it was more likely from the rally. Maybe he visited a nursing home in NYC.

Again, I'll go back to intellectual integrity. If the most likely answer doesn't fit a certain narrative (usually political), otherwise intelligent people suspend their ingrained powers of logic, reason, and deduction for that particular subject. And I didn't know nursing homes were allowing visitors. That's news to me and the people I know who have had relatives die in nursing homes without any loved ones allowed to visit during the pandemic.

JRutledge Wed Aug 26, 2020 09:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039516)
That news to me and the people I know who have had relatives die in nursing homes without any loved ones allowed to visit during the pandemic.

My wife works in nursing homes and it is true that they are off-limits to the public. They have not been allowed to have visitors for months.

Again this is a political position to try to act like they could have got it anywhere when this is not the point. The point is that he took a position that was not much or any threat and he died of the thing that he felt was not a threat. And all we can comment on is what he was doing in a very specific situation where there was no social distancing and no attempt to wear a mask. So to bring this back to sports, the time someone would spend at a rally is similar you would spend at a game. And if it was "full" like the Trump suggested and we have that kind of crowd in close proximity, we can at least at his point say we do not know what might happen if we go totally back to normal.

Peace

Stat-Man Wed Aug 26, 2020 04:20pm

Today, I learned the primary middle school league for which I officiate fall girls basketball has opted to cancel all fall sports over logistical concerns. There's no word on whether the two adjoining middle school leagues may cancel as well, but I'm suspecting they may also follow suit. So, I have some time until the winter season to prepare and plan.

bucky Wed Aug 26, 2020 04:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039501)

Only if you are correct at two, very specific, times of the day and totally incorrect at all other times of the day.;)

BillyMac Wed Aug 26, 2020 05:19pm

Autumn Basketball ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 1039519)
There's no word on whether the two adjoining middle school leagues may cancel as well, but I'm suspecting they may also follow suit ...

I often forget that several states have fall interscholastic basketball. If interscholastic basketball is indeed played in your area, please keep us informed regarding COVID modifications (masks, whistle pouches, electronic whistles, rule and mechanics modifications (like the Michigan coin toss), pregame conferences, locker rooms, dressing areas, showers, uniforms and street clothes, etc.).

This may give us a clue about what most of us could expect in the winter.

Be safe.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.Q...=0&w=223&h=165

BillyMac Wed Aug 26, 2020 05:24pm

Alias Smith And Jones ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1039520)
... you are correct at two, very specific, times of the day and totally incorrect at all other times of the day.

Why is my ex-wife posting under bucky's username?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikiped...Title_Card.jpg

Young'uns (and maybe some of the old'uns) can search for Alias Smith and Jones on the Google.

Camron Rust Wed Aug 26, 2020 07:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1039516)
Again, I'll go back to intellectual integrity. If the most likely answer doesn't fit a certain narrative (usually political), otherwise intelligent people suspend their ingrained powers of logic, reason, and deduction for that particular subject. And I didn't know nursing homes were allowing visitors. That's news to me and the people I know who have had relatives die in nursing homes without any loved ones allowed to visit during the pandemic.

Intellectual integrity suggests you don't just assume it must be what you're prefer the explanation to be without any evidence whatsoever other than conjecture.

Stat-Man Thu Aug 27, 2020 09:39pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039521)
I often forget that several states have fall interscholastic basketball. If interscholastic basketball is indeed played in your area, please keep us informed regarding COVID modifications (masks, whistle pouches, electronic whistles, rule and mechanics modifications (like the Michigan coin toss), pregame conferences, locker rooms, dressing areas, showers, uniforms and street clothes, etc.).

This may give us a clue about what most of us could expect in the winter.

Be safe.

I imagine the document may change between now and winter, but here are the important provisions for Michigan as of the moment:

There's three different categories of precautions:
Permitted - Completely voluntary.
Suggested - Best practices that should be followed, but not required
Mandated - Required. Officials unwilling or unable to do these cannot officiate.

From your list of items:
Electronic Whistles - Permitted
Masks/Shields - Suggested
Whistle Pouches - Not mentioned, presumably permitted.

Other items:
Permitted - Gloves.

Suggested - Temperature check on game days, BYO beverage, frequent use of hand sanitizer, sanitizing hands after inspecting/touching equipment.

Mandated
  • Arrive dressed in uniform. Putting on the striped shirt after arrival on site is acceptable. Jackets are not required for pregame warmups.
  • Arrive at a single location and time when possible. (aside: good luck with this)
  • Physically distance during the pregame conference.
  • No pregame handshakes, etc with other participants.
  • No contact with players.
  • Physically distancing during conferences with partners. If that's not possible, avoid direct face to face conversation.
  • Only referee and head coaches attend pregame meeting at center circle. (Aside: With the center circle's 6' radius, this is a good idea)
  • Only the referee meets with the table before the game.
  • Officials will not handle basketballs. Players are to retrieve balls that get away from the court area. players will be instructed to leave the basketball on the floor where the next possession will be during timeouts.
Rule/Mechanic Changes:

  • Players may use cloth face coverings without color restrictions.
  • Players may wear gloves.
  • Players may wear long sleeved shirts subject to existing color restrictions.
  • Only the home score/timer are permitted at the table. All others are considered non-essential and must sit elsewhere.
  • No jump balls. Visiting team starts the game with a throw-in at the division line with home team getting the next arrow. Overtimes use a coin toss to determine possession and arrow.
  • Optionally (to be communicated with head coaches if using), Officials will not handle the ball for throw-ins. They will instruct players where the designated spot is (as appropriate) and that the five second count begins when the administering official backs away. For free throws, the lead stands at the end line under the basket and instructs the free-thrower that the count begins when the official back away,
Also, officials are not responsible for teams'/administration's adherence to social distancing, sanitizing, etc. That responsibility lies with coaches and school personnel as appropriate.

Finally, games cancelled due to COVID are deemed cancelled due to an act of God and not subject to a 10-day advance notice. Officials will not be subject to failure to fulfill a contract if they can't officiate because they've been diagnosed with COVID, or a confirmed case of COVID occurs with a team or facility which/where they are schedule to officiate

BillyMac Wed Sep 02, 2020 02:30pm

Hot Off The Press ...
 
From the NFHS:

Having already circulated general COVID-19-related guidance for state associations, the NFHS turned its attention to the sport-specific level. Components that elevated the risk of virus transmission were identified within each of the 17 sports overseen by the NFHS, along with corresponding alteration suggestions for risk reduction.

Under the title “Rules Considerations,” NFHS rules committees devised mitigation strategies for baseball, basketball, competitive cheer (spirit), cross country, field hockey, football, girls gymnastics, ice hockey, boys lacrosse, girls lacrosse, soccer, softball, swimming and diving, track and field, volleyball, water polo and wrestling.

While basic modifications were made to all sports (e.g., sanitizing all scorers’ tables, common areas and shared equipment; prohibiting handshakes and limiting attendance), other sports included proposed changes that were as significant as they were unique.

For example, one of the considerations for basketball was to eliminate the iconic “jump ball” at the beginning of the game. Instead, the visiting team would be given the ball to start the contest, with alternating possessions being awarded for each successive jump ball.

BillyMac Wed Sep 02, 2020 02:48pm

The Magnolia State ...
 
From Mississippi:

In support of the Guidance for Opening Up High School Athletics and Activities, the NFHS Basketball Rules Committee offers this document as guidance on how state associations can consider modifications to the NFHS Basketball Rules Book. The modifications outlined in this document are meant to decrease potential exposure to respiratory droplets by encouraging social distancing, limiting participation in administrative tasks to essential personnel and allowing for appropriate protective equipment.

Pregame Protocol
Limit attendees to the referee and the head coach from each team with each coach standing on the center circle on each side of the division line.
All individuals maintain a social distance of 6 feet or greater at the center circle.
Suspend handshakes prior to and following the Pregame Conference.

Team Benches
Social distancing should be practiced when possible. Below are some suggestions.
Limit the number of bench personnel to observe social distancing of 6 feet or greater.
Place team benches opposite the spectator seating.
Additional chairs or rows may be added to allow bench personnel to observe social distancing of 6 feet or greater.
Create separation between the team bench and spectator seating behind the bench.
Limit contact between players when substituting.
Personnel not in the game should adhere to any required local/state face covering requirements.

Officials Table
The host should sanitize the table before the game and at half time.
Place officials table sufficiently away from the sideline to allow for additional space for substitutes.
Limit seats at the table to essential personnel which includes home team scorer and timer with a recommend distance of 6 feet or greater between individuals. Other personnel (visiting scorer, statisticians, media, etc.) may not be deemed essential personnel and consider an alternate location for them.
Table personnel should adhere to any required local/state face covering requirements.

Pre and Post Game Ceremony
Suspend the pregame introduction handshakes.
Suspend post game protocol of shaking hands.

Basketball Rules Interpretations
Basketball given to officials in the locker room, where it is sanitized as recommended by the ball manufacturer and not used for warm-ups.
The host school should ensure that the ball is sanitized during time-outs and between quarters.
Sanitizer should be provided by the host team at the table.
Cloth face coverings are permissible for players.
Consider requiring coaching staff and other bench personnel to wear face coverings while on the bench.
By state association adoption, long-sleeved shirts are permissible.
Officials should not be required to wear jackets during pre-game court/player observation.
Electronic whistles are permissible.
Choose a whistle whose tone will carry inside.
Cloth face coverings are permissible.
Gloves are permissible.
Throw-in: Official may stand 6 feet or greater away from player making the throw-in and bounce the ball to that player on a front court throw-in.
Free Throw Administration: The lead official shall stand on the end line and bounce the ball to the free thrower.
Jump Ball: Eliminate the jump ball and award the ball to the visiting team the first alternating possession for the throw in. To start an overtime period, use a coin toss to determine which team is award.

crosscountry55 Wed Sep 02, 2020 10:31pm

Many of these ideas are only for perception and are frivolous in the bigger picture. If there are viral particles in a gym during a game, they are most certainly going to find some new hosts. Little can be done about that. Short of a vaccine or routine testing (highly unlikely), everyone will be playing basketball roulette.

Also, rules like this won’t survive first contact with personnel, nor the officials who want nothing to do with enforcing them. MLB couldn’t even make it to opening day before players were once again high-fiving, throwing the ball around the infield, and generally eschewing masks in the dugout. And what are the umpires and the commissioner’s office doing about it? Absolutely nothing.


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SC Official Thu Sep 03, 2020 08:49am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1039584)
Many of these ideas are only for perception and are frivolous in the bigger picture. If there are viral particles in a gym during a game, they are most certainly going to find some new hosts. Little can be done about that. Short of a vaccine or routine testing (highly unlikely), everyone will be playing basketball roulette.

Also, rules like this won’t survive first contact with personnel, nor the officials who want nothing to do with enforcing them. MLB couldn’t even make it to opening day before players were once again high-fiving, throwing the ball around the infield, and generally eschewing masks in the dugout. And what are the umpires and the commissioner’s office doing about it? Absolutely nothing.


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Yep. It's to make it look like they are doing something that will help.

And didn't the CDC come out and say that there is no evidence that the virus is transmitted via surfaces?

BillyMac Thu Sep 03, 2020 09:57am

Stopping The Tide ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1039585)
It's to make it look like they are doing something that will help.

It’s like King Canute trying to stop the tide.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.f...=0&w=204&h=163

BillyMac Sat Sep 05, 2020 01:45pm

The Constitution State ...
 
Latest news from Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference (the state interscholastic sports governing body) regarding fall sports.

The CIAC had come up with more "relaxed" ideas but ended up following the more restrictive State Department of Public Health standards (some towns/cities/schools were already planning to unilaterally follow the stricter State Department of Public Health standards (New Haven School System and Bridgeport School System already decided no fall football)).

No 11 on 11 full contact football games, also no 7 on 7 football games (football coaches never really liked the CIAC suggested idea of 7 on 7 football). Conditioning and practice are still allowed. Passing leagues and combines are allowed. No decision on spring football games.

Girls volleyball (girls volleyball in fall, boys volleyball in spring, in Connecticut). Girls volleyball coaches didn't like the CIAC suggested idea of fall outdoor (weather issues) volleyball games, so all players will wear masks while playing indoor volleyball.

Football and girls volleyball were the two main points of contention between the CIAC and State Department of Public Health.

Boys and girls cross country. Staggered starts and finishes to maintain social distancing.

Girls swimming (girls swimming in fall, boys swimming in winter, in Connecticut). "Virtual" meets. Teams swim in their home pools and compare times after the "virtual" meet.

Boys soccer, girls soccer, girls field hockey. Only minor restrictions.

Game schedules will be based on short bus rides to adjacent schools, towns, and cities, ignoring traditional conference or league schedules, and school rivalries.

Fewer games scheduled in the season.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP._...=0&w=269&h=169

BillyMac Sun Sep 06, 2020 12:11pm

Tournament Experiences ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039587)
Latest news from Connecticut Interscholastic Athletic Conference (the state interscholastic sports governing body) regarding fall sports ... Fewer games scheduled in the season.

Maximum twelve regular season games (down from usual twenty).

CIAC states that there may be some post season "tournament experiences", falling short of calling it state championships. There has been some mention of regional "tournament experiences" in our geographically small state.

(If football had been played (it won't), maximum six regular season games.)

Robert Goodman Sun Sep 06, 2020 07:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039587)
Boys and girls cross country. Staggered starts and finishes to maintain social distancing.

Distancing? In the amount of air on a cross country course?!
Quote:

Girls swimming (girls swimming in fall, boys swimming in winter, in Connecticut). "Virtual" meets. Teams swim in their home pools and compare times after the "virtual" meet.
When you're that wet, no chance of transmitting a respiratory virus. Except on the backstroke, your face is getting washed every stroke. Swimming in marked lanes is as much distancing as they impose at the supermarket.

Besides all that, if we could get children to spread the virus (and therefore immunity to it) around faster, they'd be doing society a favor. It's counterproductive to isolate any but persons with risk conditions for severe disease. Social distancing just prolongs the pandemic.

Raymond Sun Sep 06, 2020 10:19pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 1039589)
... It's counterproductive to isolate any but persons with risk conditions for severe disease. Social distancing just prolongs the pandemic.

Some people prefer a vaccine or prophylactic in place before getting exposed. Other folks live or consistently interact with people in at-risk categories.

And shockingly, there are lots and lots of people who are in at-risk categories who like to be employed and earn a living in safe working conditions.

The biggest hindrance and consideration for me returning to the court this winter is whether or not wife is comfortable with me doing so and coming home to her every night. If the basketball season started tomorrow, I can tell you right now I'd be living in a separate bedroom, eating dinner from across the dining room table, and practicing celibacy.



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BillyMac Mon Sep 07, 2020 09:40am

Beware Of Spitters ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 1039589)
Distancing? In the amount of air on a cross country course? ... When you're that wet, no chance of transmitting a respiratory virus. Except on the backstroke, your face is getting washed every stroke. Swimming in marked lanes is as much distancing as they impose at the supermarket ...

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.r...=0&w=250&h=180

While I grant you that these restrictions are mostly for show (like King Canute trying to stop the tide), these restrictions can't hurt.

I've attended a lot cross country meets (my son ran in high school and college). The start of a multi-team meets looks like a herd of bison, often with dozens, or even a hundred, runners packed together at the starting line. Runners often draft behind other runners in a very narrow course and could be running through the previous runners exhaled air, and cross country runners are known for constantly spitting (in high school my son's team wore T-shirts warning of such). In races with no timing chips, finishers are "herded" into chutes for proper scoring (while still heavily breathing, catching their breath).

Swimmers don't wear masks as shoppers in a grocery store do. While I'm pretty sure that, while in the water, swimmers would be pretty safe, the problem would be all the milling around on the pool deck (as anyone whose been at an indoor pool knows, ventilation often isn't great) between heats and events, and using the locker rooms to change out of wet suits. Virtual meets also take the bus ride out of the equation.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.x...=0&w=300&h=300

BillyMac Mon Sep 07, 2020 09:43am

Herd Immunity ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 1039589)
... if we could get children to spread the virus (and therefore immunity to it) around faster, they'd be doing society a favor. It's counterproductive to isolate any but persons with risk conditions for severe disease. Social distancing just prolongs the pandemic.

And just how is that herd immunity approach working for Sweden?

https://news.yahoo.com/sweden-used-c...171500455.html

https://news.yahoo.com/why-a-herd-im...153057073.html

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.k...=0&w=300&h=300

Camron Rust Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:35am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039592)

Working as good as what we've done here (according to Johns Hopkins...same deaths per capita). The real picture will only become know once this all ends. Perhaps they reach the end sooner (that is their theory) and they'll look like geniuses...but maybe not. You can't know how it will turn out in the end until we're there.

BillyMac Mon Sep 07, 2020 11:35am

You Don't Know What You Don't Know ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1039593)
The real picture will only become know once this all ends. Perhaps they reach the end sooner ... and they'll look like geniuses ...but maybe not. You can't know how it will turn out in the end until we're there.

Agree.

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.E...=0&w=300&h=300

From my posted link:

But Sweden’s strategy didn’t entail a total return to normalcy. The Swedish government implemented a ban on gatherings of 50 people or more, and many Swedes voluntarily followed social distancing guidelines.

Former FDA Commissioner Scott Gottlieb noted in an op-ed published on Aug. 30 that in addition to being much larger than Sweden (a country with a population the same size as North Carolina’s), the U.S. has a high rate of citizens with preexisting conditions, which can lead to a higher rate of COVID-19 complications; about 10 percent of Americans have diabetes, and 40 percent are considered obese.

Moreover, Sweden’s pursuit of natural herd immunity doesn’t appear to be working. A study released in June by the country’s Health Agency showed that only 6 percent of Swedes had developed antibodies to the coronavirus — though a recent study from Sweden’s Karolinska Institute and Karolinska University Hospital suggests that immunity in Sweden may be higher than antibody tests indicate.

“We’ve seen so far 185,000 Americans die of this coronavirus with 6 million people infected,” Kass continues. “If we want to intentionally infect another 126 million Americans, that means that over 1 million more Americans would die of this virus before we infected enough people to get to any possible natural herd immunity.”

“The bottom line is, will herd immunity be the answer to this coronavirus pandemic? And the answer will be yes — but not natural herd immunity. We will get to herd immunity hopefully with the development of a safe, effective vaccine,” Kass says.

“Until we have a safe and effective vaccine that is available to the hundreds of millions of Americans that still need to be exposed and recovered from this virus, we just need to continue to do the hard work, which means wear a mask, be socially distanced from people you don’t know, wash your hands multiple times a day and listen to the science.”

bucky Mon Sep 07, 2020 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039587)
Boys and girls cross country. Staggered starts and finishes to maintain social distancing.

Huh? So I guess that means no passing either:rolleyes: Once the race begins, runners will be near each other big time.

I get that it is outdoors and distancing can be normal during a race. But, what sport involves more heavy breathing and close proximity to other participants over all others? My guess is CC. Runners are gasping all over the place, expelling all kinds of respiratory fluids. Spitting has also been mentioned. Seems like a recipe for transmission. They have such ritualistic testing for pros, why do they not implement similar practices at the lower levels, such as NCAA/NFHS events? They do not need to do the exact, high-cost testing, but at least something. I envision trainers performing simple testing and oversight for all the athletes. Once cleared, allow full play. Schools perform such tests, although they are very basic and mostly consist of answering questions. I could see HS sports being done normally under these practices. Same goes for officials. Maybe once testing becomes super-easy this will happen.

BillyMac Mon Sep 07, 2020 02:06pm

We Spit On Ourselves ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Robert Goodman (Post 1039589)
Distancing? In the amount of air on a cross country course?!

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1039595)
Huh? So I guess that means no passing either ... Once the race begins, runners will be near each other big time.

Although it will vary from race to race, staggered starts mean that runners will run within a group of "cohorts" (members of their own team/school), and then compare times at the end of the race.

Also, starting groups could be smaller, faster runners in one cohort, slower runners in another cohort, males in different cohorts than females.

Also a possibility that only the fastest runners (with a real chance of scoring) would race that day.

Many years ago, in most of my son's high school dual-meets, or tri-meets, every single runner (including some real stick-to-it-ness tortoises) on the the two, or three, teams would start at the same time, boys, girls, fast, slow.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.q...=0&w=300&h=300

With staggered starts, one walks the course, races, and is on the bus with the same people. Easier for contact tracing.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039591)
Runners often draft behind other runners in a very narrow course and could be running through the previous runners exhaled air, and cross country runners are known for constantly spitting (in high school my son's team wore T-shirts warning of such).

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1039595)
... more heavy breathing and close proximity to other participants over all others? My guess is CC. Runners are gasping all over the place, expelling all kinds of respiratory fluids. Spitting has also been mentioned. Seems like a recipe for transmission.

I contacted my son and he reminded me what his high school warm up shirts said "XC - We Spit On Ourselves".

BillyMac Wed Oct 14, 2020 03:25pm

Pandemic Intensifies Need to Retain, Recruit Officials For High School Sports ...
 
From the NFHS:

Pandemic Intensifies Need to Retain, Recruit Officials For High School Sports

In addition to the many new challenges for high school sports leaders this year, the COVID-19 pandemic has intensified concerns regarding a longstanding issue – the shortage of high school sports officials.

At this time last year, we suggested that numerous veteran officials were retiring early, in large part, because of unruly behavior by parents. In some cases, officials were quitting before they even reached two years on the job – unwilling to take abuse from parents and other adult fans.

The 2017 survey of 17,000-plus officials by the National Association of Sports Officials (NAS0) supported our views about the effects of parents’ behavior. While 42 percent of respondents said they started officiating for the love of the game, only nine percent responded that way when asked why they continue to officiate.

Although our messages were beginning to be heard across the country, we believe the pandemic will be an additional wake-up call for parents and other fans. Surely, after the events of the past seven months, these individuals will be grateful for any opportunity to attend contests this year and positively support student participants.

While the NASO survey indicated that the level of poor sportsmanship was worse in competitive youth sports (36%) and adult recreational sports (21%) than high school sports (14%), now – more than ever before – we urge parents to let players play and officials officiate.

On the flip side, however, while the pandemic may help with gaining stronger support for officials from parents and other fans, it has created other challenges – from the uncertain status of high school sports in some states to individuals opting not to return to officiating because of health concerns.

With the average age of officials nationally at about 53 years and many officials in their 60s, some individuals have not returned this fall due to COVID-19 concerns. In South Carolina, for instance, more than 80 football officials opted out this year, causing some games to be moved to Thursday nights.

Although registration of officials is down in many other states, the numbers are expected to rise some when all sports are reinstated. State associations have encouraged numerous safety measures to protect officials, such as wearing of face masks and gloves, social distancing, suspension of handshakes and attending online preseason meetings.

In addition to retaining these incredible men and women currently serving as high school contest officials, recruiting new individuals to serve in this capacity is more urgent than ever.

Since 2017, the NFHS has been involved in a national campaign – #BecomeAnOfficial – to recruit and retain officials, and the program has achieved remarkable success. Now in its fourth year, more than 44,000 individuals have expressed interest in becoming an official and have contacted their state association to start the process.

In another silver lining to COVID-19, the interest in officiating is skyrocketing this year. In the first six weeks of the 2020-21 school year, almost 6,000 people have expressed interest in officiating high school sports and have signed up through the #BecomeAnOfficial website at highschoolofficials.com. At this rate, almost 30,000 potential new officials would be identified by the end of the year – almost double the number from two years ago.

In the past, we have targeted specific groups of individuals that might be interested in officiating, such as college intramural sports directors, police, firefighters, EMTs, high school teachers and currently high school coaches.


BillyMac Wed Oct 14, 2020 03:27pm

Connecticut Sports Officials ...
 
Connecticut high school officials were in short supply at the start of the fall sports season. Now the numbers are getting worse due to the pandemic ...

https://news.yahoo.com/high-school-o...035900990.html

I heard that my local board only has as few as six new applicants this year, in past years we often filled our training classes with about two dozen applicants.

crosscountry55 Wed Oct 14, 2020 08:04pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1039886)
In another silver lining to COVID-19, the interest in officiating is skyrocketing this year. In the first six weeks of the 2020-21 school year, almost 6,000 people have expressed interest in officiating high school sports and have signed up through the #BecomeAnOfficial website at highschoolofficials.com. At this rate, almost 30,000 potential new officials would be identified by the end of the year – almost double the number from two years ago.

Nothing like a moribund economy to spark interest in alternative revenue streams.

90% will quickly learn how awful our margins are. The other 10% might get hooked and stick around, which would be nice.


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BillyMac Thu Oct 15, 2020 08:53am

Great Recession of 2008-09 ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1039888)
Nothing like a moribund economy to spark interest in alternative revenue streams.

Same thing happened here in Connecticut during the Great Recession of 2008-09. We had to turn away many, many applicants from our local board, we were unprepared to train that large a number. Now we have alternative online training for those who want it for rulebook training. Floor training (mechanics) is still in person.

chapmaja Sat Oct 31, 2020 03:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stat-Man (Post 1039545)
I imagine the document may change between now and winter, but here are the important provisions for Michigan as of the moment:

There's three different categories of precautions:
Permitted - Completely voluntary.
Suggested - Best practices that should be followed, but not required
Mandated - Required. Officials unwilling or unable to do these cannot officiate.

From your list of items:
Electronic Whistles - Permitted
Masks/Shields - Suggested
Whistle Pouches - Not mentioned, presumably permitted.

Other items:
Permitted - Gloves.

Suggested - Temperature check on game days, BYO beverage, frequent use of hand sanitizer, sanitizing hands after inspecting/touching equipment.

Mandated
  • Arrive dressed in uniform. Putting on the striped shirt after arrival on site is acceptable. Jackets are not required for pregame warmups.
  • Arrive at a single location and time when possible. (aside: good luck with this)
  • Physically distance during the pregame conference.
  • No pregame handshakes, etc with other participants.
  • No contact with players.
  • Physically distancing during conferences with partners. If that's not possible, avoid direct face to face conversation.
  • Only referee and head coaches attend pregame meeting at center circle. (Aside: With the center circle's 6' radius, this is a good idea)
  • Only the referee meets with the table before the game.
  • Officials will not handle basketballs. Players are to retrieve balls that get away from the court area. players will be instructed to leave the basketball on the floor where the next possession will be during timeouts.
Rule/Mechanic Changes:

  • Players may use cloth face coverings without color restrictions.
  • Players may wear gloves.
  • Players may wear long sleeved shirts subject to existing color restrictions.
  • Only the home score/timer are permitted at the table. All others are considered non-essential and must sit elsewhere.
  • No jump balls. Visiting team starts the game with a throw-in at the division line with home team getting the next arrow. Overtimes use a coin toss to determine possession and arrow.
  • Optionally (to be communicated with head coaches if using), Officials will not handle the ball for throw-ins. They will instruct players where the designated spot is (as appropriate) and that the five second count begins when the administering official backs away. For free throws, the lead stands at the end line under the basket and instructs the free-thrower that the count begins when the official back away,
Also, officials are not responsible for teams'/administration's adherence to social distancing, sanitizing, etc. That responsibility lies with coaches and school personnel as appropriate.

Finally, games cancelled due to COVID are deemed cancelled due to an act of God and not subject to a 10-day advance notice. Officials will not be subject to failure to fulfill a contract if they can't officiate because they've been diagnosed with COVID, or a confirmed case of COVID occurs with a team or facility which/where they are schedule to officiate

I will be shocked to see an actual basketball season happen in Michigan. Right now I hope we finish the girls swimming season and the girls don't end up like the boys did in March, getting cancelled the week of the meet. Golf and Tennis are finished. Cross Country is next week (regionals finish today), while football just finished round 1 of the post-season (5 more weeks left), and volleyball starts next week (three weeks). Swimming state meet is in 3 weeks as well.

The way Michigan is going, I would not be shocked to see events cancelled starting next week.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Oct 31, 2020 04:12pm

And no for something completely different.
 
Mark, Jr., and I returned home from his college softball umpiring assignment in Florida early on the evening of Friday, March 13, 2019. We unloaded my van and then I went and filled up the tank. This afternoon I filled up the van: 7.5 months (215.2 mi) on 16.391 gal or 0.458 months per gal. :p

MTD, Sr.


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