High school shot clock?
 

Broadcaster here. Today, Georgia voted for a 30 second shot clock.

Only approved holiday tournaments and showcase games will use the shot clock during the 2020-21 season. In 2021-22, however, all region games will feature a shot clock, while it will be a permanent fixture in all varsity games in 2022-23, including state playoffs.

Will that mean another referee to work the shot clock? As basketball referees, what are your thoughts on the shot clock being implemented?

I'll hang up and listen. Thanks.

What do you mean by "another referee?" When do referees run the clock? Now if that is a local thing, then I guess, but not the case in many parts of the country.

Not a huge fan of the shot clock for all high school games.

Peace

In high school football, someone in referee stripes with patches runs the play clock. I figured the same would be the case with the shot clock in high school basketball. But that's why I ask here, to learn. I appreciate everyone who teaches folks like me on this forum.

No, an official will not do this. Just a trained shot-clock operator, as in a college game.

In Massachusetts, we have had a 30-second shot clock for all high school and many intercity 5th-8th grade games for more than a decade.

Typically, you have a scorer, a timer and a shot clock operator at the table. Sometimes, an experienced and highly capable person handles both timer and shot clock duties.

How this is handled depends upon the location.
Some areas used people for the table crew (scorer, timer, and possible shot clock operator) who are part of a group or association which provides the training and provides coverage of this personnel for the various schools. Las Vegas, which does not employ a shot clock, operates in this manner. There is a an association for the local scorers and timers which is a subsidiary of the local officials association. The pay for the table personnel is negotiated with the schools district (or individual private schools) through this group.

The Sacramento area, which has a shot clock, simply allows the host schools to provide these people and give them whatever training is needed or allow them to learn on the job. The schools compensate them directly at their discretion.

During my 46 years of officiating I officiated women's college for 34 years, that means 34 years of officiating with a shot clock and during that time I also officiated two years of girls' H.S. in California and men's jr. college for 15 years as well as being a USA Basketball Referee (FIBA Rules). And I did not have any problems officiating games which used a Shot Clock

That said I have never been a proponent of the Shot Clock at any level including the NBA/WNBA. It is almost 02:00amEDT and I am going to bed and my objections to a Shot Clock are for another discussion some other time.

Goodnight all,

MTD, Sr.

That explains that for me, not how it works where I live with the play clock in football. We either do it on the field (no field game clock and done that way at all levels) or the person that runs the game clock is someone provided by the school. There are no licensed officials doing this at all. So if there was ever a shot clock added in my states, then I doubt they would use a basketball official. It would probably be a person provided by the school just like what happens when we have a scorekeeper and clock operator. Those are people associated with the school hosting the game. What you guys do sounds local.

Peace

I guess I'm going to be "that guy" now.

By rule (NCAA and NCAAW Rule 2), the scorers, timers, and shot clock operators ARE officials. They may not be wearing stripes, well trained, or belong to an officials association, but they most definitely are officials.

They are under NFHS rules to...also Rule 2, Section 1 "GAME AND TABLE OFFICIALS".

Should be revised to state: "game and table Personnel".

I will be that guy in return. :D

It does not require an officials or state license to do that job. So yes by rule they are considered officials, but anyone off the street can do that job and there are no consequences for them not being licensed. At least with most of us. Maybe not in the state where this was first mentioned, but the school does the hiring for this position in the vast majority of these cases.

Peace

I don't disagree with any of that. In fact, that's pretty much exactly what I said.

But you do realize that those were stating that they are not officials was not saying what they are considered by rules? The issue again is that most places do not ask licensed officials to do these things. But that is rare in a few cases. Just pointing out the difference.

Peace

The NCAAW (and, I assume, NCAAM) rule book have the timer / scorer as officials by including them as bullet points under something like:

The game officials are:
a) Referee and umpires
b) Timers and scorer

FED does not: The game officials must be a referee and an umpire or a referee and two umpires who shall be assisted by an official timer and scorer.

That whole "who shall be assisted by..." is either poor wording or makes them not game officials.

None of that affects anything I do on a nightly basis. So, it's probably just semantics, depending, of course, on what you mean by semantics. ;)

I wouldn't make that assumption. I've worked plenty of NCAA games with untrained shot clock operators.

A lot of times it is a student that does not even know the rules to that part of the game.

Peace

BAHAHAHAHA

Anything below D1 is hit or miss when it comes to having "trained" operators. At the lowest levels (i.e. JuCo) it would be the exception rather than the norm to have someone who really knows what (s)he is doing.

The distinction for NFHS is that they are not "game" officials, but "table" officials.....still officials, just not game officials.

With all this talk about the distinctions between floor officials and table officials, we really could use the input of our former forum expert CHS Eagle. I'm sending out the Bat Signal for him as soon as the sun goes down.
:D

Two of my associations use officials to run the game or shot clocks, at least for varsity games. For one association, the game clock operators are also potential alternate officials for varsity games. For the other association, clock operators (game and shot), and sometimes scorekeepers are hired by the schools along with the game officials. Any of the clock operators/scorekeepers who is also an on-floor official serves as an alternate official. I have been called into action as an alternate myself.

In the other associations I work for, students or faculty serve as table personnel for all games. Usually, faculty do a better job than students, but there are some exceptions.

Officials as ECOs and shot clock operators work best, but faculty operators also work well. DC has had a shot clock since about 2016, and MD has had a shot clock for girls since 1970, and for boys since 2018. I like the phase-in plan for GA, because it gives schools time to acquire shot clock units. Maybe NFHS will adopt something similar, because it already phases in uniform requirements, or VHSL could adopt something similar, to make rules more consistent across the DMV.

They might be best, but no such requirement here in either state I work. I do not know we could guarantee the number of officials to cover games in that manner.

Peace

Not sure why the VHSL would need to be consistent with DC and Maryland. We also border West Virginia, Kentucky, Tennessee, and North Carolina. I know along the southern border many associations have officials who also work in NC.

I know of no school districts anywhere in our state who either have or who'd admit to have the funding for this. In fact, I predict school boards in our state will compel AD's to revert to 2-person very soon. I'm surprised this shoe hasn't dropped by now. The fit will hit the shan then. But our preference be the last of the concerns school districts are left to contend with. Survival will predominate over athletic concerns.
I reserve the right to be wrong.

This is the biggest impediment to this ever coming into place. I do not see schools in this environment advocating thousands of dollars spent just for these devices in one situation.

Peace

A Dearth Of Officials ...
 

While most states seem to have problems recruiting young officials to replace retiring veteran officials, it appears that DC/Virginia/Maryland have a plethora of basketball officials.