Stupid Middle School Coach ...
 

Blue 1 attempts a layup (in the act) with two minutes left in a tie game. White 1 (with a linebacker build) slams into Blue 1 while attempting to prevent the shot. Ball doesn't go in, Blue 1 crashes to the floor and rolls over.

I'm the lead and immediately come up with the intentional foul signal (crossed arms) and add our local excessive contact signal (arms and fists down to side) and verbalize such. I report the foul to the table with the same signals and verbiage, and back away to the trail opposite table to help administer.

White coach yells that it isn't an intentional foul. I walk across the court to calmly explain to him that since there was excessive contact, by rule, it was an intentional foul. He continues to complain that it wasn't an intentional foul. I ask him, "Was there excessive contact?", he replies that there was. I tell him that excessive contact, by rule, is an intentional foul. He says, "That's wrong". I tell him, "That's enough coach", and back away to my position to help administer.

Before first free throw is attempted he yells across the court "That's still wrong". Technical foul (no written warning).

Almost made it through the entire season without charging a technical foul to a coach (not even a written warning), or a player.

Stupid middle school coach. He wasn't arguing about the excessiveness of the contact (he actually agreed with me that it was excessive), he was arguing a rule interpretation, and one doesn't do that with BillyMac by yelling across a crowded gym, especially after I took the time to calmly explain it to him.

Stupid middle school coach.

Mine is that earlier in the week while reporting a foul the assistant is complaining and trying to talk to me for several seconds, to the point I told him he needed to stop. At that point he informed me that he was a coach and could say what he wanted and that if he wanted to he was allowed to stand up and coach, why he said that I don't know as I didn't bring up standing in the box. I politely inform him he is the assistant coach and that he was not allowed to stand and that I didn't want to hear anything else from him the rest of the night, his response was he would do what he wanted. That is when I looked at the head coach and told him if he wanted to continue to be able to stand and have his box he better get his assistant under control - luckily I never heard another word, haha!

I can tell its getting late in the season, my tolerance level isn't as much as it used to be, lol. Knock on wood -- still haven't had one(T) this year!!

Famous Last Words ...
 

Not one all year? Hell, I had three in one game (one player, one assistant coach, one player-who-just-fouled-out-and-was-now-bench-personnel). Probably should've had 2-3 more in that game too.

On The Long Ride Home ...
 

Officials often regret the technical fouls that we didn't call, not the technical fouls that we did call.

And that is why I feel HS should change the name to match what the NCAA rules do....flagrant 1 and flagrant 2.

Excessive Contact Foul ...
 

Perhaps.

Or how about making an NFHS excessive contact intentional foul a separate foul, just called an excessive contact foul, with it's own signal (maybe downward thrusting fists to side), and not a type of intentional foul. It would have the same penalty as a excessive contact intentional foul (two shots by player fouled and the ball at closest spot to the foul).

We do not need a different foul for every possible action. It is just bad wording and needs to be changed. Coaches will still screw it up, but they will not at least have the name of the foul, thinking that that means the specific action must be intentional.

Peace

I don’t do too many MS games, maybe 2 or 4 per month, but had a set last night. Whacked a coach in the second quarter when, after having given him more intelligent conversation time regarding an act-of-shooting decision than most officials would, he still couldn’t resist walking away and slapping his hands loudly in frustration above his head. Just wouldn’t let it go.

It was the difference between a 1-and-1 and 2 shots in the second quarter. Strange hill he chose to die on. Especially in a game that already had 45 fouls in 24 minutes.

Stupid middle school coaches.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Separation ...
 

To prevent arguments like this (certainly not the first such argument of my career) the NFHS probably needs to somehow separate excessive contact intentional fouls from other "garden variety" intentional fouls to do away with the "but he was going for the ball" statement often stated by coaches, and completely take away the intentional foul signal and any "intentional foul" verbiage for such illegal excessive contact.

I don't argue with coaches about rules. I tell them the rule and move on.

Nothing will prevent arguments based on ignorance. Ignore, laugh or apply Raymond's approach. Or T.

This fall I had a MS girls game where B1 used excessive contact on a girl driving to the basket. Coach B couldn't understand why I called an intentional foul, even with the explanation it was for excessive contact. His reaction was :confused: because he also officiates and is the president of our officials association.

I had a JV coach earlier this season want to argue a double dribble call. He somehow figured it was a hill worth dying on when he decided to end his argument with, "Go read a rule book!"

I showed him with a technical foul that I've read Rule 10-5-1 :D.

I'm at 16 techs through 71 games. Still left a couple out there too, those are the ones which bother me. :(

Hell, I'm still brooding over one I should have served in my last game, over 5 years ago.

Luckily I can still bask in the vicarious glow when my progeny pull the trigger themselves. I've just got to hear the details, then I feel better for a while.

Moral of this story:

Serve "T" early and often (when justified). You'll never know when its your last chance and you're left unfulfilled the rest of your life.

Pleasant Dreams ...
 

Magical things can happen here on the Forum.

Click your black patent leather Reebok Zig referee shoes together and say, "Technical foul", and the coach will be magically post T-ed up.

Do it twice and he will be magically post ejected.

Don't do it three times or unspeakable things will happen.

Sleep well my friend.

No Hesitation ...
 

Nasty.

Along with the F word, this has got to be an almost automatic technical foul for all but the thickest skinned among us.

It did -- had one the very next day..... I should've kept quiet lol -- had to open my big mouth. LOL

You got em, use em...
 

Playing a whole game without fouling someone usually means you didn't play tough defense. Going a whole season without Teching someone usually means _______________!

A) You don't work very many games
B) You are new and afraid to blow the whistle
C) You are very experienced and know how to diffuse things quickly
D) You have been around but are probably too passive to be a ref
E) You are lucky enough to only have games in which every player and coach is perfect

Calling a T is often the tool to diffuse things quickly.

All of the above. ;)

Peace

Greatest Generation ...
 

Reminds me of my Dad's World War II refrain, "Smoke 'em if you got 'em".

Wow!!
I read your post and thought "what a clown." You - not the coach.
THEN I read your signature - John 3:16.
Wow - what a clown....

OK, the coach didn't know the rule.
OK, your a hero and gave a T.
Where in this scenario does the coach show to be "stupid?
Where on this planet does the coach deserve to be called a "Stupid middle school coach?"

In my never to be too humble opinion, very poor judgement to have posted this....

I Fought The Law And The Law Won (Bobby Fuller Four, 1966) ...
 

I probably should have called him an ignorant middle school coach, ignorant of the rules.

But he was probably a little stupid also, stupid in that in a tied game with two minutes to go, he chose to die on this hill.

He got two free shots at me, one when I was in the reporting area, and one before I crossed back over to calmly discuss it with him.

Did he really think he was going to change my mind by yelling at me from across the gym?

He wanted his opponents to shoot two free throws by the fouled player with rebounders.

If he hadn't yelled at me from across the gym, his opponents would have gotten two free throws by the fouled player and the ball back on their endline.

Instead his opponents got four free throws, two by their best free throw shooter, and then his opponents got the ball back at the division line (and his school district athletic director got an unsporting game report the next day).

Testing his rules knowledge a third time (after I calmly discussed it with him) against a forty year veteran official on a very basic call (excessive contact equals two free throws and the ball), with the game on the line, tied with two minutes to go?

And doing it by yelling across the gym?

He fought the law and the law won.

And yet, he expected a different outcome.

A miscalculation?

Sharpest tool in the shed?

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.N...=0&w=300&h=300

Your sanctimony is noted, sir.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Rather obvious and easy technical foul to call. I doubt anybody would think they are a hero for calling one in this situation.

And coaches should not being arguing rules with officials. Coaches who choose to argue rules they don't have the slightest clue about are being jerks. I don't even allow the back-and-forth, I shut it down immediately.

You must not come 'round here much, bud.
Proud of that 'tude hanging from your sleeve?