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-   -   Correctable Error-End of Qtr (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/104874-correctable-error-end-qtr.html)

The_Rookie Fri Dec 20, 2019 01:28pm

Correctable Error-End of Qtr
 
With 40 seconds left in Q1, B1 fouls A1. The board list 6 team fouls so Throw in. No stoppages in play the last 40 seconds. During intermission table notifies crew that it was actually 7th team foul.

Since the Quarter ended, Do you still have a Correctable Error? Does a CE carryover to next quarter?

Does NCAAW handle this differently than NFHS?

Thanks!

SC Official Fri Dec 20, 2019 01:31pm

What does “no stoppages in play” mean? Were there any made goals?

The_Rookie Fri Dec 20, 2019 01:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1036215)
What does “no stoppages in play” mean? Were there any made goals?

The clock did not stop the last 40 seconds and no baskets made.

BillyMac Fri Dec 20, 2019 01:38pm

Window Of Opportunity ...
 
Failure to award a merited free throw. In order to correct any of the officials’ errors, such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

NFHS: Correctable up until the first live ball (at the disposal of the inbounder) to start the new period.

Hand the ball, or bounce the ball to the inbounder, once he has the ball at his disposal, it's too late to correct the error.

Anytime before that, it's correctable.

Team A loses possession with the intermission so we're shooting one and one with no players on the lane and "starting" (it already started) the next period with point of interruption, alternating possession arrow, as "usual".

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...926954ea_m.jpg

crosscountry55 Fri Dec 20, 2019 04:40pm

A correctable error is just about the only way that a penalty from one period can carry over to the next. So to the OP, given the follow-on clarification, the intermission is the first dead ball after the error, so it is still correctable. After correction, the POI is the AP throw-in to begin Q2.

I think the only other way that a penalty can “sort of” carry over is that rare situation where a team winning by one or two at the end of regulation or overtime does something stupid. But even then, the case book says the shots are attempted “as if” they were part of the previous period.






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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Sat Dec 21, 2019 12:09am

Quote:

Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1036215)
What does “no stoppages in play” mean? Were there any made goals?

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1036218)
Failure to award a merited free throw. In order to correct any of the officials’ errors, such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

NFHS: Correctable up until the first live ball (at the disposal of the inbounder) to start the new period.

Hand the ball, or bounce the ball to the inbounder, once he has the ball at his disposal, it's too late to correct the error.

Anytime before that, it's correctable.

Team A loses possession with the intermission so we're shooting one and one with no players on the lane and "starting" (it already started) the next period with point of interruption, alternating possession arrow, as "usual".

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...926954ea_m.jpg


1) By Rule, no Penalty Carrie's over to another Period.

2) When the Intermission is over administrator the FTs then start Q2 with an AP Throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

The_Rookie Sat Dec 21, 2019 01:02pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 1036217)
The clock did not stop the last 40 seconds and no baskets made.

Let me modify my OP..what if goals were made? NFHS and NCAAW?

BillyMac Sat Dec 21, 2019 02:03pm

Too Late ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Rookie (Post 1036262)
Let me modify my OP..what if goals were made? NFHS and NCAAW?

NFHS: All it takes is one field goal. That field goal would create a dead ball, when the ball is at the disposal of the inbounder (run the endline) it becomes a live ball, and it's then too late to correct.

... such error must be recognized by an official no later than during the first dead ball after the clock has properly started.

https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/...926954ea_m.jpg

bob jenkins Sat Dec 21, 2019 06:22pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1036265)
NFHS: All it takes is one field goal. That field goal would create a dead ball,

Same in NCAA.

Nevadaref Sun Dec 22, 2019 03:34pm

There is an NFHS case book ruling for a CE which is discovered during halftime and fixed to begin the third quarter.

BillyMac Sun Dec 22, 2019 06:37pm

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1036274)
There is an NFHS case book ruling for a CE which is discovered during halftime and fixed to begin the third quarter.

2.10.1 SITUATION C: A1 is fouled with one second remaining in the second quarter. Team A is awarded a throw-in and A1 passes the ball inbounds to A2, the horn sounds ending the quarter. As officials enter the court from the half-time intermission, the scorer informs the Referee that A1 should have been awarded one-and-one bonus situation. RULING: The error is discovered within the correctable error timeframe, and shall be corrected. A1 is awarded a one-and-one bonus situation with the lane cleared. Resume play from the point of interruption, which is an alternating-possession throw-in to start the third quarter. (2-10-1a; 2-10-6; 5-6-2 Exception 3)

Nevadaref Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:11pm

The only issue is that the NFHS has never made it clear at which basket these FTs should be attempted.

crosscountry55 Sun Dec 22, 2019 11:16pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1036277)
The only issue is that the NFHS has never made it clear at which basket these FTs should be attempted.


I have often wondered this myself. As Q2 would have ended and technically speaking there is no penalty carryover (you’re simply correcting an error within the allowable window), I’d interpret that you’d shoot at the basket for the second half.



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Nevadaref Mon Dec 23, 2019 05:45am

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1036278)
I have often wondered this myself. As Q2 would have ended and technically speaking there is no penalty carryover (you’re simply correcting an error within the allowable window), I’d interpret that you’d shoot at the basket for the second half.



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I believe that there are reasonable cases for both. One could contend that based upon the rules for starting and ending a quarter (or period of play), these CE FT attempts are part of the third quarter (when the ball is first made live after the halftime intermission) and that the scorer should enter them under that column in the official scorebook.

However, I also understand that there is an argument to be made that they are “related activity” and therefore still part of the second quarter, which everyone thought had ended, but actually had not, and thus should be attempted at the team’s first half basket.

BillyMac Mon Dec 23, 2019 10:31am

The Plot Thickens ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1036277)
The only issue is that the NFHS has never made it clear at which basket these FTs should be attempted.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.1...=0&w=205&h=204


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