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Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Sam
Simple scenario. A1 trapped at corner of divsion line and sideline. A1 spins a pass around defender, bouncing it in b/c, once again in f/c, then ball goes to A2 in the f/c. Clearly you would have a violation on this play, wouldn't you?

Not if A1 is in the BC when he makes the pass. ;)

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
Chuck, I respect your knowledge and admit that I am actually referencing a 1995 NCAA Rules book, my 2001 copy is at home. However,

"Section 11 Ball in Backcourt
A Player May not be the first to touch the ball in his or her backcourt if the ball came from the frontcourt while the players team was in team control and the player or a teammate caused the ball to go into the backcourt. A player causes ..."

In the rule book it indicates the ball must be touched in the backcourt, in both of my scenarios, the ball was not touched while the ball was in the backcourt.

Although the wording is essentially the same, the NCAA has added an AR that "it doesn't matter where the ball goes once it's been in backcourt"

Bob,

Without the AR I would have had no violation in either case. I have not seen this come up in a game I was calling or watching (pick-up game excluded), but I could see this happening in a close game, near the end, when teams where pressing each other.

With the AR, it is clearly a violation in both scenarios.

By the way, what does AR stand for, and do you know what year that one came out.

Thanks,

Quote:

Originally posted by SamIAm
By the way, what does AR stand for, and do you know what year that one came out.

Thanks,

Approved Ruling

This year -- and it's just a clarification, not a change -- so the same ruling (I've forgottne the thread plays by now) *should* have applied last year.

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Quote:

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Sam
Simple scenario. A1 trapped at corner of divsion line and sideline. A1 spins a pass around defender, bouncing it in b/c, once again in f/c, then ball goes to A2 in the f/c. Clearly you would have a violation on this play, wouldn't you?

Tony earlier quoted the four criteria for b/c:
Ball has FC status.
Team control.
Last to touch in the FC.
First to touch in the BC.

In your scenario: ball has fc status, A has team control, A is the last to touch in fc. However, even though the ball attains bc status on the first bounce, it attains front court status again on the second bounce, then A2 touches it. So A never touched the ball in back court. So...unless my sleep deprivation is affecting my judgement, or there is a case book ruling on this that I'm not aware of, I don't think you have a bc violation because the fourth element is missing.

Let me correct #4:

First to touch the ball after it's entered the BC.

This is a BC violation.

Tony --

Really? The ball bouncing in the FC doesn't change it's status back to FC?

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Tony --

Really? The ball bouncing in the FC doesn't change it's status back to FC?

It does chage the status -- but that doesn't matter.

The rule doesn't read "touch the ball while the ball is in the backcourt."

It reads, "first to touch the ball" -- no location given.

Quote:

While your at it...correct #3.

Last to touch the ball before it entered the BC.

While this may seem to imply touching the ball in the front court, it does not.

Example: A1 in the BC throws a pass towards A2 who is in the FC. The ball either hits the ref, who is in the FC, or is a bounce pass that has some spin on it, hitting the floor in the FC. The ball is not touched by any player before it bounces back into the BC. Now, if any A player touches the ball, it is a violation.

Now if you really want to get twisted, if the ball is lopsided or has a really odd spin and then bounces back the FC, A still can't touch it without a violation.

Bob,

A.R 19 clears my question up. It states that it does not matter where the ball is located when touched by the FC team. If the ball goes from FC to BC, the FC team cannot be the first to touch the ball regardless whether the ball stays in BC or returns to FC.

If this had not been discussed, it would never have happened, and I wouldn't have to worry about it. Now that it's come up and I'm totally confused, it'll happen in the first three scrimmages I do, and I'll mess up the explanation royal, and it'll make hash of my whole season.

Dan, is catastrophizing a male-side trait?

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Dan, is catastrophizing a male-side trait?

Who would want to make a trophy out of a cat's ***?

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
If this had not been discussed, it would never have happened, and I wouldn't have to worry about it. Now that it's come up and I'm totally confused, it'll happen in the first three scrimmages I do, and I'll mess up the explanation royal, and it'll make hash of my whole season.

Dan, is catastrophizing a male-side trait?

No, not exclusively...

http://www.iaeste.at/~akarpfen/taxi/disaster.jpg

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Dan, is catastrophizing a male-side trait?

Who would want to make a trophy out of a cat's ***?

Cute...when I first read that word I thought she was referring to something that often happens to young male cats which tends to relieve them of their male-sidedness.

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Dan, is catastrophizing a male-side trait?

Who would want to make a trophy out of a cat's ***?

http://www.uselessgraphics.com/school2.gif

Me!