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Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 12:21pm
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It's a New Day now

At a recent camp (for 1st year thru 5th year officials) during the closing session one of the senior clinicians went over a few take home points. One of the items he emphasized was that--and I shall paraphrase..."In the old days we would never talk to a player and seldom talk to the coach. If a player had an issue with a call then that player would keep it to himself; but these days the players feel like that they can "discuss" every call you make on them. In the old days we'd T them up if they even looked at us in a dismissive manner. But I'm here to tell you that in today's game you should be more tolerant of players who want to discuss calls, make an effort to listen to them because it shows that you are not a stubborn jack-ass and it keeps the game under better control. I implore you all to try it out"

I know exactly what he meant. Because when I was a player (many years ago) our coach would warn us to "be quiet" if a ref makes a bad call on you--let me deal with that ref-not you!"

However, in today's game, this mindset of being "stand-off-ish" towards players is old-fashioned, in today's game we refs should be more 'compassionate' towards the players.

This struck me as being on a "slippery slope" in terms of the un-intended consequences of giving players this much slack...

Last edited by Kansas Ref; Tue Oct 08, 2019 at 12:24pm.
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Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 12:51pm
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If you aren't willing/able to have some dialogue with players and coaches in this day and age you aren't going to go very far.

That doesn't mean you tolerate poor behavior or ignore your business, but it does mean you should answer respectful questions and not show "the hand" every time a player tries to talk to you.

The days of dogmatic, holier-than-thou officiating are long gone.
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Old Tue Oct 08, 2019, 01:45pm
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I guess then you will be mad at me. I do not think it is necessary to be talking to players about plays and situations, especially ones they are not involved in. I also feel that even with coaches, there are rules of engagement to that conversation as well.

I will talk to anyone that comes to me in the right manner or asks the right question. But it is not my obligation to explain anything that takes place. Often players and coaches come to the wrong official or they come with an attitude and the minute you start talking they want to overtalk you. I'm old school (not from an officiating point of view, but grown man point of view) that I do not think teenagers should be coming to me like I am their peer. They watch too much damn NBA and that does not fly with me at all and I doubt it ever will. That is why I hardly ever see college players act out and when they do, they know what is going to happen or the coach knows what is going to happen. This is more of an issue at the high school level because they have no idea what to do because they look at pro players and do not realize that everyone there is getting paid heavily for those games. We keep arguing about pay at the high school level and high school players do not know what it is to work, let alone work in a sports setting and never will.

That position has ever once stopped me do anything. And I can tell you at the college level they are all over the officials about penalizing things that many high school officials think "Well that is not that bad" type of behavior.

It is great he told you all that, but the problem with that is to do what we used to do and ignore obvious unsporting behavior, which BTW was actually what was the "Old School" way in many respects.

Peace
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Old Wed Oct 09, 2019, 11:40am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JRutledge View Post
I guess then you will be mad at me. I do not think it is necessary to be talking to players about plays and situations, especially ones they are not involved in. I also feel that even with coaches, there are rules of engagement to that conversation as well.

I will talk to anyone that comes to me in the right manner or asks the right question. But it is not my obligation to explain anything that takes place. Often players and coaches come to the wrong official or they come with an attitude and the minute you start talking they want to overtalk you. I'm old school (not from an officiating point of view, but grown man point of view) that I do not think teenagers should be coming to me like I am their peer. They watch too much damn NBA and that does not fly with me at all and I doubt it ever will. That is why I hardly ever see college players act out and when they do, they know what is going to happen or the coach knows what is going to happen. This is more of an issue at the high school level because they have no idea what to do because they look at pro players and do not realize that everyone there is getting paid heavily for those games. We keep arguing about pay at the high school level and high school players do not know what it is to work, let alone work in a sports setting and never will.

That position has ever once stopped me do anything. And I can tell you at the college level they are all over the officials about penalizing things that many high school officials think "Well that is not that bad" type of behavior.

It is great he told you all that, but the problem with that is to do what we used to do and ignore obvious unsporting behavior, which BTW was actually what was the "Old School" way in many respects.

Peace
I agree with everything you said. I was marked off in my state final game last year because the person giving the evaluation thought I should have been more interactive with the players. I'm really not sure what was meant by that statement. I try to keep as much emotion out of my officiating as possible so there is no appearance of any favoritism.
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Old Wed Oct 09, 2019, 01:09pm
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Let me give it the ole liberal arts college try.

I can't speak to pro or university levels because other than some college scrimmages I've never done work at those levels. At youth and school levels, the way I would phrase it is that the players, coaches and officials are all stakeholders in the game designed to be played by young people. As a result if there are issues, confusion or learning needs to take place the expectation is the stakeholders can collaborate despite discrepancies in power/role, on coming to an understanding that improves the product and experience.
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