Coaching Box - Deaf Player's Interpreter Told No
 

Would love to hear your commentary on this from the State of Indiana.

I think the crew did the best they could given the rule we are asked to follow but some are saying this is a violation of ADA.


https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...ZIZbpZ8lcVuAR8

Why don't schools ever think to call / write the state on these types of issues to get clearance in advance?

And there is this from the state of MI.

Federal civil rights suits say sign-language interpreters required by ADA are often lacking

I am betting the IHSAA is going to be involved in a suit on this matter given the parallels...

Bob, I agree and that is something I commented on, on the Facebook page. I brought up the religious medals and needing approval prior to the season. I was met with the ADA is there to include, not to require clearance. The clearance is already there.

I think the crew did what they felt was their option given the NFHS rule on coaching box we are asked to follow. Do I think that was the 100% best way to handle...No, I don't. But with that said, nowhere in the rule book is ADA brought into conversation. ... Now people are saying the officials, the host site (that didn't provide interpreter and the IHSAA) should be sued...What a mess!

You simply cannot account for every situation and I by no means think the NFHS rules override ADA laws....Where does common sense and going with it fall within the written rules.

Without a directive from the NFHS or OHSAA I'm allowing the interpreter, unless for some reason safety is an issue.

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Because it's easier for them pressure us to just throw rules to the wayside "for the kids."

Connecticut ...
 

My game, I'm the referee, I'm asking for state paperwork, and absent that, I'm still allowing the interpreter to stand wherever it's best for the deaf player.

However, before I leave, I'm telling the head coach, and the athletic director/site director, to get paperwork from the state for the next game.

I'm also getting the player's name and number before I leave, and when I get home I'm emailing the information/situation to my local assignment commissioner who is the liaison between our officials and the schools/state.

I can guarantee that my assignment commissioner, my local interpreter, and my state interpreter will back me up 100%. I'm also willing to bet that the state will probably back me up as well.

Again, the usual caveat, when in Rome ...

At the risk of sounding insensitive, this could open up a wide range of issues...

• What about interpreters for those who don't speak the same language as the coach? Should they get to stand, too?
  
• Are players with anxiety allowed to bring their therapy dogs to the bench area? (I have a daughter with anxiety who participates in sports, so I understand issues like this quite well.)

Why couldn't the interpreter interpret from a seat on the bench? That's not denying the player access to the coach's instructions. It seems the officials made an appropriate accommodation for the interpreter and people are still upset!

This is better than my answer. Lol

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Obviously take it on a case by case basis.

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Are those disabilities covered by the ADA?

I don't believe ESL students are covered by the ADA.
Two questions we are allowed to ask:
(1) is the dog a service animal required because of a disability, and (2) what work or task has the dog been trained to perform.

If the facility has allowed the animal to enter the building, I'm certainly letting the animal stay in the bench area with the owner. I might balk at bringing it onto the court, barring some paperwork telling me otherwise. There are certainly other sports where a service animal could be used without these worries though...
https://www.today.com/health/blind-t...-dog-1C9434190

I think the governing association and the officials decided like you that giving the player some access to interpreter met the athletes need and their obligations.

Beyond that there are 2 groups of people upset.

1) Fans/followers who are in a twist because they got something one way all season long and then when someone tries to enforce a rule they get up in arms. Welcome to being a fan/follower.

2) The head of the legal branch of National Association for the deaf said in the article:
"Regardless of what the rules are for who may be on the sidelines, even if they limit access to coaches only, denying an interpreter is a violation of federal laws mandating equal access for deaf people."

Rosenblum said what happened "denies equal communication" for Joey.

So from the legal side they are likely going to argue the idea of equal communication. That if A1 can have a private convo with the coach standing in the box, Joey through hi interpreter all. need to be able to have a similar conversation with the coach. The argument will be that the interpreter is is not getting to communicate the coaches message are clearly, effectivey and in an equal way as the communication is happening.

The cynical side of me says...if Joey is looking over at his interpreter for signs while on defense, he's at even more of a disadvantage....but I would also agree that the interpreter should be allowed access to communicate coach messages both in the huddle and during game.

Only once can I recall in my officiating years (20) where this type of thing came up and it was in a youth league. Of course, we allowed the interpreter to be where needed (which coach requested endline)...as long as they stayed back off the endline and out of the way of the officials..

This is the second event in the last month where the IHSAA is under fire. Now this one is a little more cut and dry to me...

https://www.indystar.com/story/sport...aa/2949529002/

1998,99 NFHS Interpretation
 

SITUATION 15: Team A has a player who is deaf. The coach requests that both a signer and head coach be allowed to occupy the optional coaching box in order to relay instructions to the affected player.
RULING: The school principal shall make a written request to the state high school association which shall include written verification from a physician confirming the condition. The state association, if it approves, will return a letter of approval and this letter shall be presented to the game officials prior to each contest.

Old Plumbers Never Die, They Just Fade Away ... ...
 

With apologies to General Douglas MacArthur.

Nice citation. Thanks.

Nevadaref? Why are you posting under Freddy's username?

I'm guessing there's going to be an attorney that picks this up and uses that situational ruling by the NFHS to levy discrimination suit against them.

Yup. Shame on all of us for not being sensitive to a 20-year old interp that hasn’t been publicly available since the turn of the century, and that was never published in the formal casebook to begin with, thereby ensuring that 90% of officials never read it.

Oh the humanity!


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Against whom? The NFHS? They have accommodations for deaf players based on this old interp. To me, the player's parents, coach, and school dropped the ball when they didn't submit the requisite paperwork with the state.

Coaching Box - Deaf Player's Interpreter Told No
 

What is it about playoff games that causes officials to make issues out of stuff they would likely ignore the previous three months?

(Rhetorical question. Don’t actually answer. We all know the answer.)



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Is it the fact that officials are actually being watched, for the possibility of advancing to the State Semifinals/Finals and want to show their rules knowledge (along with good mechanics and the other needed abilities)?

If I had this team's coach in the game, I would treat the interpreter as the head coach for the purposes of communication with the deaf player, and ask the head coach to file an accommodation letter with the state office, if he has not already done so. If the player (and his coach) present me with an accommodation letter from his state, I will honor it and relay the specifics to my partners.

Unless the state office has given written permission for the interpreter to stand, she will be sitting on the bench and signing from there.
I don’t grasp how sign language is different when sitting or standing, so I don’t see any negative impact to the deaf player.

As the nephew of a deaf couple I can say line of sight and clarity of purpose is important. It is easier if they can focus on speaker & signer instead of trying to distinguish the signer from a mass of bodies and movements and determine who's voice they are signing. The role of the interpreter is to sign any communication made by an individual towards the hearing impaired person

Just like the head coaches voice gets to be distinct than the other bench noise because of presence, proximity, ease of contact over when they are sitting, etc. I would assume that the desire or expectation would be to have the interpreter able to relay all those attributes in real time in as similar a way as possible. By physically being by the coach and relaying the message in real time with their lips it is also evident to the reciever who is speaking to them. There would be no need to say sign Head Coach tom says or Assistant Coach Paul says. If they are allowed to be proximate to the speaker.

When my aunt and uncle use an interpreter the expectation is that other persons don't speak to the interpreter and that interpreter doesn't speak "to" others. My aunt and uncle are supposed to be able to maintain eye contact/ line of sight with the person whom they are speaking while the interpreter in in the vision of the speaker and hearing distance of hearing capable person in the case where they are interpreting sign for them.

Bryan: From the OHSAA Basketball Manual (OHSAA Website)

Authorizing rule exceptions to provide reasonable accommodations– Adopted in Ohio.
Comment: The NFHS allows reasonable accommodations to be made to individual participants with disabilities and/or
special needs, as well as those individuals with unique and extenuating circumstances. Please send a written request to
[email protected]. If the permission is granted, you will keep that to show officials prior to a contest.

In a similar issue several years ago, the OHSAA granted permission for a coach using sign language to stand.

Thanks. If I ran into this next season I probably would have screwed up.

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I talked with 2 of the 3 officials on the game and they were not told about the deaf player in the coaches meeting before the game. The school had not contacted the IHSAA about getting a waiver for the player to have an interpreter either. An assistant couch told one of the officials that they thought everyone knew about it. All 3 officials live 45-90 miles from this school. I love closer than that and I hadn't heard about it. The school's failure to properly get a waiver put the officials in a terribly awkward position. When this came up during game action the officials allowed the interpreter to stand just outside the box area when the player was in the game.

Because you haven't signed before. It's louder when you stand and can sign from a higher vantage point of course. The equivalent of typing in all caps.

Let’s not righteously pounce on perceived ignorance. Point made, winning counterpoint offered in reply. Let’s move on and not let this distract us from the fact that it’s in schools’ best interests to have state approval for abnormal conditions in advance. This situation, and others like it that pop up every postseason, are entirely preventable with a little foresight.

It shouldn’t be put on officials to reconcile competing guidance—in this case NFHS BB rules and the ADA reasonable accommodations clause—when they are accountable for one but not the other.


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This.

Officials job is to administer the game and rules. Not be deeply aware of legal interpretations of state/federal statutes. This is the role of the body which has actual legal departments to determine. If documentation is done ahead of time none of this is an issue.

None of it would have been an issue if anyone of the officiating crews that had previously this year had done what this crew did or at least informed the school/governing body that a decision or ruling would be needed.

Everyone needs to take care of business when business needs to be taken care of.

"With less than two minutes left in the second quarter, a video shows, Culver's assistant coaches are standing up. Only the head coach is allowed to stand during live play, according to IHSAA rules.

As a referee motions for the Culver assistant coaches to sit down, he sees the woman standing and asks her to sit as well."

I find it odd that 14 minutes played before the signer was noticed. Maybe she was sitting the entire time during those 14 minutes. I just find it odd.

Odd ???
 

Did the deaf player play the entire fourteen minutes?

Perhaps the deaf player was not in the game for most of those 14 minutes.

May I Answer ???
 

Even though it was offered as a rhetorical question, I would like to answer.

Here in Connecticut, previous to the state tournament there is a meeting for all officials selected to work the state tournament. Among many other topics, points of emphasis (not the same as the NFHS Points of Emphasis) for state tournament games are covered. These topics often include things like uniforms, equipment, coaching box, state medical and religious waivers, etc. One year a major point of emphasis was to keep players out of the jump ball circle during the announcement of the starting lineups. Lots of officials were "herding" players away from the circle before state tournament games that year.

Also, here in Connecticut we have six local boards that cover regular season games in six different geographic regions. We have a state tournament rule that states that officials (we only work with our local board partners, no crossovers) may only work games in which both of the teams, or neither of the teams, in a specific state tournament game be geographically affiliated with those local board officials (Connecticut is a very small state, with no state tournament geographic regions, state tournament officials can work anywhere in the entire state).

Last night I observed my friends work a game at a site (ninety minute drive for me, slightly longer for them) that they never worked at before, between two teams they've never worked, teams in two different conferences they've never worked, from two towns they've never worked in, with two coaches that they've never met.

Even though Connecticut is 100% IAABO, each local board may stress certain rules differently than other local IAABO boards. One may see varsity players wearing illegal sleeves in some local boards, but not at the varsity level in other local boards. Some local boards may stress coach deportment more than other local boards.

These differences often become apparent in state tournament games.

I watched first half on Youtube.

The player checks in the first quarter with 1:38 remaining and plays the remainder of the quarter. The signer is standing at the designated spot (ultimately where the officials told her to stay after the incident that generated the headline).

The player does not get any playing time until he checks in with 2:56 remaining in the second quarter. The signer is again where she is ultimately told to stand.

At 1:42 remaining in the 2nd, things have gotten a little chippy. The assistant is standing in the coaches box. The signer is at the designated spot. The assistant is told to sit and the officials get together. The player is near the officials and the signer moves out of her spot for the first time. She moves out onto the floor in what appeared to be an attempt to explain the situation. The coach brings her back. The officials break up their meeting and the official tells her to stay where she has been previously standing.

This is a big to do about nothing. It should not have made the paper. This spot is between the bench and the table. She is never next to the coach from what I seen. They are commonly seen 15-20 feet apart.

I haven't had time to watch the whole first half but I suspect that was the first time that the player was in the game. I heard that the player split time between JV and varsity during the season so that stands to reason.

I obviously hadn't noticed CJP's post before I commented.

Here's the video:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/pC4Nye9M8jI?start=1919" frameborder="0" allow="accelerometer; autoplay; encrypted-media; gyroscope; picture-in-picture" allowfullscreen></iframe>

Funnier Than Abbott & Costello ...
 

We've got a deaf official on our local board. Whenever we work a game together, during the pregame coach/captain/officials conference I always tell the coaches that if they have problem to yell at my partner and he always follows my comment with a smile and a thumbs up sign. Always gets a laugh, we should take our show on the road (wait, we do).

I too work with a deaf official on some of our weekend youth stuff...I told him he is lucky he can't hear the BS from the parents. :p :mad:

fake news!!!

Why can't the interpreter just sit and perform her duties, like the other assistants? I first thought this but then realized that if the head coach moves too far she may not be able to hear him. Also, the coach may want to have a private conversation with a player and thus, she may need to stand to be closer to perform her duties. So....why can't she does stand/walk behind the bench? That would allow her to move with the coach, be in a safe position, and perform her duties to the fullest.

Another thought, this one perhaps dumb. Wouldn't a deaf person who had an interpreter have an advantage in any loud gym? I have seen thousands of games where the communication with the coach was absent due to noise. One indicated the interpreter was allowed to substantiate equal communication so if it gets loud enough, then shouldn't the interpreter be disallowed from communicating? Please don't answer. I know...dumb.

I am no expert, but anxiety? Don't all players have that? I certainly am neither trying to be funny nor insensitive but how does someone with an anxiety disorder play mainstream sports? Again, do not answer, I will research.

A player has an implant that allows them to hear what the coach is saying. The coach talks into an electronic device that send the words to the implant, where the player can hear them. Should that be legal? Should that have documentation? During a live ball and action on the court, the coach was holding the device to his mouth and talking to the player.

Resolve
 

OK, I understand the reactions to the original post, inaccurate as the various news accounts were. And also the obvious error and neglect of the NFHS (there goes my job application with them...oh well) to include the very plain and straightforward Interpretation they previously issued in the Casebook. I get all that.
Moving forward, is there any way the accumulated expertise and rules-assessment proficiency of those on this discussion forum can get this issue published by the NFHS in the Casebook this next season?
The fact that this incident occurred just north of the NFHS headquarters in Indianapolis doesn't sway me to think that they'd actually note the need.
Us?

My Contribution
 

Since the protocol calls for us in our state to forward the request for a rules change or casebook revision to our state association, I'll be doing so right after the post-season tournament ends.
You?

I don't get the big deal. The kid's deaf, what does it matter if she stands right next to the coach or is moved to a place to accommodate her within the rules. As long as she can hear the coach and sign to him he's not looking at the coach anyway. This is a whole lot about nothing.

I have not gone through and read all the comments. To me the interpretation from 1989 still rings true to this day. The school, knowing they need a letter from the state association, verifying the hearing impaired condition and the use of the interpreter shall provide the letter to the officials which clearly states where the interpreter is allowed / required to be and where they are allowed to move.

I know some sports are much better about hearing impaired participation than others. Swimming and Diving is my primary sport and the NFHS does not do anywhere near a good job with hearing impaired swimmers. NCAA and USA Swimming both include the starting protocol for a hearing impaired swimmer in their rulebook. NFHS does not include the protocol in the rulebook, but it is in the officials guidebook. The problem is many associations, including the MHSAA do not provide this to the officials. In fact out of the officials in my assigning group, I am the only official that has seen that book. The reason, it was sent to me by the MHSAA to prove it exists. Supposedly it is for sale, but I have yet to find it on the NFHS publications website. Thankfully I know who the hearing impaired swimmers are for the schools I assign and have an official that I know knows the protocol work those meets.