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A Pennsylvania Coach Thu Jan 31, 2019 06:09pm

Delay of game question
 
We had a situation recently in my chapter that I'd like some opinions on. A is trailing by 5 points. A1 makes a layup, cutting the margin to 3 points, with 4-point-something on the clock, still running. A1 grabs the ball out of the net and throws it back toward his own bench. I am aware of the specific rule/case directing the officials to ignore this delay and allow time to expire. However, at least one of the officials on this game was not aware, and blew the whistle to stop play. Now what?

Nevadaref Thu Jan 31, 2019 06:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach (Post 1029621)
We had a situation recently in my chapter that I'd like some opinions on. A is trailing by 5 points. A1 makes a layup, cutting the margin to 3 points, with 4-point-something on the clock, still running. A1 grabs the ball out of the net and throws it back toward his own bench. I am aware of the specific rule/case directing the officials to ignore this delay and allow time to expire. However, at least one of the officials on this game was not aware, and blew the whistle to stop play. Now what?

Since he failed to follow the case play ruling and sounded his whistle, the official needs to charge a team technical foul. That is the only way to prevent the scoring team from unfairly benefitting from the illegal action.

Freddy Thu Jan 31, 2019 06:53pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nevadaref (Post 1029624)
Since he failed to follow the case play ruling and sounded his whistle, the official needs to charge a team technical foul. That is the only way to prevent the scoring team from unfairly benefitting from the illegal action.

At first I was thinking inadvertent whistle, but that would only reward the offending team. Let's go with a Player Technical for delaying the game by "Preventing the ball from being made live promptly or from being put in play" (10-4-5a).

BillyMac Thu Jan 31, 2019 07:14pm

Delay Or Prevent ...
 
In various delay/prevent situations after a goal scored:

If the action (throw-in plane, interfering with the ball), with more than five seconds remaining in the game, is delaying the game, go with a delay of game warning (or technical foul after prior warning). If less than five seconds remaining in the game, ignore such actions.

If the action (at any point in the game, regardless of score, or time remaining) is preventing the ball from becoming live (one example, kicking the ball into the bleachers), go directly to a technical foul, not for delay of game, but for the unsporting act of preventing the ball from becoming live (no warning needed), and tack on a delay warning in the book.

The following acts have their own rule and their own penalty, regardless of the score and time remaining in the game: Knocking the ball out of A1’s hands (technical foul), and crossing the boundary line and fouling A1 (intentional personal foul), and also tack on a delay warning in the book for either.

bob jenkins Thu Jan 31, 2019 07:28pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach (Post 1029621)
We had a situation recently in my chapter that I'd like some opinions on. A is trailing by 5 points. A1 makes a layup, cutting the margin to 3 points, with 4-point-something on the clock, still running. A1 grabs the ball out of the net and throws it back toward his own bench. I am aware of the specific rule/case directing the officials to ignore this delay and allow time to expire. However, at least one of the officials on this game was not aware, and blew the whistle to stop play. Now what?

See 9.2.10A. Technical foul.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Jan 31, 2019 07:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach (Post 1029621)
We had a situation recently in my chapter that I'd like some opinions on. A is trailing by 5 points. A1 makes a layup, cutting the margin to 3 points, with 4-point-something on the clock, still running. A1 grabs the ball out of the net and throws it back toward his own bench. I am aware of the specific rule/case directing the officials to ignore this delay and allow time to expire. However, at least one of the officials on this game was not aware, and blew the whistle to stop play. Now what?


Pennsylvania Coach:

The Rule to which you allude is when Team A has yet to receive a Delay of Game Warning and A1 reaches through the Boundary Plane but does not make contact with either the Ball or B1.

That said, the Play you have described is, in my opinion, is an act which cannot be ignored even if Team A has yet to receive a Delay of Game Warning. A1's actions cannot be ignored and need to be charged and penalized.

MTD, Sr.

Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Thu Jan 31, 2019 07:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. (Post 1029633)
Pennsylvania Coach:

The Rule to which you allude is when Team A has yet to receive a Delay of Game Warning and A1 reaches through the Boundary Plane but does not make contact with either the Ball or B1.

That said, the Play you have described is, in my opinion, is an act which cannot be ignored even if Team A has yet to receive a Delay of Game Warning. A1's actions cannot be ignored and need to be charged and penalized.

MTD, Sr.

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1029631)
See 9.2.10A. Technical foul.


Bob:

Thanks for the CB Play.

MTD, Sr.

deecee Thu Jan 31, 2019 08:53pm

Can I guess that no T was issued and the officials just went to the POI?

A Pennsylvania Coach Thu Jan 31, 2019 10:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1029640)
Can I guess that no T was issued and the officials just went to the POI?

You have guessed correctly.

Thanks Bob for the casebook play.

deecee Fri Feb 01, 2019 07:29am

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Pennsylvania Coach (Post 1029642)
You have guessed correctly.

Thanks Bob for the casebook play.

I can only hope this was at least on a below varsity level game (doesn't make it right, but less on the line I suppose).

BillyMac Fri Feb 01, 2019 08:03am

Always Listen To bob ...
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1029631)
See 9.2.10A. Technical foul.

9.2.10 SITUATION A: A1 is out of bounds for a throw-in. B1 reaches through the boundary plane and knocks the ball out of A1’s hands. Team B has not been warned previously for a throw-in plane infraction. RULING: B1 is charged with a technical foul and it also results in the official having a team warning recorded and reported to the head coach. COMMENT: In situations with the clock running and five or less seconds left in the game, a throw-in plane violation or interfering with the ball following a goal should be ignored if its only purpose is to stop the clock. However, if the tactic in any way interferes with the thrower’s efforts to make a throw-in, a technical foul for delay shall be called even though no previous warning had been issued. In this situation, if the official stopped the clock and issued a team warning, it would allow the team to benefit from the tactic. (4-47-1; 10-1-5b, c; 10-3-10)

LRZ Fri Feb 01, 2019 08:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1029645)
I can only hope this was at least on a below varsity level game (doesn't make it right, but less on the line I suppose).

I know what you are getting at, deecee, but I'm not sure that the sub-varsity coaches and players would agree.

rbruno Fri Feb 01, 2019 08:32am

I would think that one scenario could be that if a player reaches through the plane and does not touch the ball could cause his team to steal the throw in pass as he is being allowed this pressure while we wait for the clock to run out. I guess a late whistle here after the ball is stolen could wipe out this advantage, but now you've stopped the clock again so the defense still gains an advantage.

deecee Fri Feb 01, 2019 09:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by LRZ (Post 1029651)
I know what you are getting at, deecee, but I'm not sure that the sub-varsity coaches and players would agree.

5th grade coaches won't agree either, but it's the reality of things. Expect a big drop off between Var-->JV officials and even bigger from JV-->Fresh.

A rule mess up sub varsity won't get addressed at all unless it's absolutely catastrophic. Even at the varsity level it's rare. Until you get to college kicking rules has little to no consequences.

Assignors have little recourse as qualified officials are in short supply. I can tell you since I stopped officiating 2 years ago I haven't missed the nonsense that came with it one bit. I do miss the game. But not enough to have to start that grind back up at this point in life.

LRZ Fri Feb 01, 2019 10:06am

It's not worth an argument--and I don't think we are really disagreeing--but I meant that to the coaches and players, there is always a lot on the line, if only because coaches and players want to see the rewards of their efforts. Sure, the skills and coaching might all be less than great, and sub-par officiating might not have career consequences, but it's still meaningful. That's why I go all out every game, regardless of the level.


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