Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...
 

The Connecticut State interscholastic sports governing body, our State IAABO board, and our local IAABO board, all "strongly urge" schools to send a least one coach to a nonmandatory new rules meeting.

My local board offered three such meeting to local leagues and conferences over the past few weeks. Our interpreter hosted these meetings, covering last year's new rules, this year's new rules, and this year's Points of Emphasis.

What do you think that the coaches were the most concerned about?

Legal Guarding Position, Block/Charge, Screening, Verticality? Nope.

Establishing Pivot Foot and Traveling? Nope.

Loose Ball Recovery? Nope.

Twenty-Eight Foot Long Coaching Box? Nope.

Written Warning for Coach/Team Conduct? Nope.

Intentional Fouls? Nope.

Body Bumping? Nope.

Rolled Up Waistbands? Bingo.

"But my players don't like the way their shorts fit."

Wisconsin is sticking with last year's interp. If the waistband doesn't cause the shorts to have more than one visible logo, they can be rolled.

Just got the same "guidance" in NE North Carolina.... after hearing all fall that there would be zero tolerance.

Then order some that do, or let the kids provide whatever shorts they want to wear that do. Nice thing about shorts is the only restriction is the manufacturer’s logo restriction and that they must be worn as intended.

They don’t all have to be the same design or color or anything like that. So let them wear whatever they have they fire as they want and has a proper logo.



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Our state (to the northeast of Rut) deemed both rules effective: waistbands rolled down are illegal (Interpretation #9), but if manufactured (3-4-5) to be rolled down with a single logo displayed upright, then legal.
Lazy officials still won't care nor enforce. Intellegent officials who can both enforce that and prioritize play-calling will take care of bid-ness. :)
I'm trying to encourage the latter....

I understand the thought process regarding rolling the waistband and exposing a logo and/or drawstrings. What if the player rolls them the opposite way? Is that considered to be illegal?

No logo.drawstring would be displayed however the waistband is rolled. Thoughts?

It's still rolled, so if the state doesn't allow rolled shorts, then it's not allowed.

It is, however, much harder to detect. ;) And, if it's not detected, it can't be enforced.

We were told to be lenient below varsity.

We are sticking with allowing rolling so long as no extra logo is showing and the drawstring isn't dangling.

Thank goodness.

I've been a stickler on it so far this year. Had a new one the other night where kids were tucking the bottom of their shorts into their compression shorts. My thought was they look like idiots and they didn't stay in once they started running so whatever. It's not a safety issue, and it is against the "worn as intended" rule, but I'm going fishing for that one. If you want to look like a dip$hit, feel free.

Actually there's a current-year interpretation outlawing this exact practice.

Now your state might not care but if they are sticklers on the waistband, then I would imagine they want this interp enforced, as well.

As The Manufacturer Intended ...
 

Cheers! to some Midwest common sense from America's dairy land!

Watching my son's V games in the LA area, I haven't seen it enforced at all.

But then, I've seen tucked in shirts enforced less this year, and last night there was blood on a shirt and at the bench an injured player whipped off his and gave it to the player with blood, who took off his on the court and pulled on the other without tucking it in . . . and I'm pretty sure there was blood on his shorts, too . . .

Ohio is allowing rolled waistbands sans logos as well.

Selective hearing for me? I missed that one. Thanks for correcting me.

Citation ...
 

Thank SC Official. He led me to the citation.

https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5098/...a6d3cb4e58.jpg

Number One Priority ...
 

Worked my first scrimmage of the season tonight. Girls. We came out of the locker room and walked across the court to greet the coaches, the very first word out of one coach's mouth was, "So you guys really aren't going to enforce that no waistband rolling rule, are you? My girls are all freaking out about it".

The importance of this issue to coaches and players is blowing my mind.

https://tse3.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.t...=0&w=300&h=300

I'd reply, Just so we're straight, what other rules would you like me not to enforce tonight?

^^^^^
This is the SD interp, If you want to roll them, they must be rolled inward.

Roger

Rolled Waistbands ...
 

The three of us (three officials are sent to six period scrimmages, we still work two person and rotate in, $50.00 each for the night) basically stated that we may not be "looking for problems" but if we happened to spot a problem that we would have to enforce. We also stated that we wouldn't remove a player from the game if there was an infraction, that we would allow her to adjust the waistband on the court.

Although a cute response, the coach could simply, straight faced, reply that that is the only one. Additionally, the coach could easily respond that there are several rules not enforced so what is wrong with adding one to the list, especially since it is a rule that has nothing to do with playing the game. I digress.

A nice idea however many times, a coach (usually opposing), brings something to your attention. Now, the crew looks a little silly for appearing to have not seen something before the game started. Also, then the other coach tries to spot other infractions against the opponent. Lastly, either coach may quip later in the game that you "enforce that (rule X) but not (rule Y)?" Anyway, there is no perfect way to do it and your way is a good start. Just saying that it can possibly lead to other issues.

In our first game, one team had 10 players wearing rolled waistbands. The R talked to the coach during warm ups and told all the players. It was also told to the captains. The 5 starters came onto the court with rolled waistbands.:eek: The R was irked and addressed it, all while attention was brought on us, especially him. Later in the game, several players from the other team had the rolled waistbands. Again, the R addressed it. The coaches supported him/us but they were still miffed that it was an issue, causing such delays during the game. The game was a blowout. After the game, the home coach entered our locker room and we indicated that we were not being jerks about it, that we did not like to deal with it, and that it was not fun for us. However, we explained the league commissioners/assignors and state association have made it a POE and that recent communications were sent to enforce it. He was very understanding. Just stinks that it is an issue.

I attended a game with one team (winning team) having A1 with multi-colored sleeve, A2 wearing a black headband, and A3 wearing a white headband. There was a veteran crew and they allowed it throughout the game. The opposing coach, down by 35 entering the 4th quarter, tried to sub in a deep-bench player wearing a white undershirt beneath is dark jersey. Probably only time he will play the whole season. One official beckoned him on and the other, seeing the undershirt, sent him back. The player went to the locker room and removed the undershirt. Kids enters the game late and gets minimal playing time. Almost seemed like a travesty to me to witness.

The Best Laid Plans Of Mice And Men Often Go Awry (Robert Burns) …
 

I'm pretty strict regarding fashion issues. That being said, regarding the rolled waistbands, I'm not going to go looking for trouble, if a player has a tucked in jersey bloused out at the waist, I'm not going to ask the player to unblouse the jersey so that I can check for rolled waistbands.

However, if the rolled waistband is obvious, and out in the open for everyone to see, including me, I will enforce the interpretation.

I don't see myself removing a player from the game if there is a rolled waistband infraction, I would allow said player to adjust the waistband on the court.

Now, all that may change after I get a few games under my black belt, or the Grand Poobahs come up with some stronger, or weaker, guidelines.

Has anything been brought up about rolling bottom of shorts? I have not seen a ton of this but a group of officials was asking if this has been addressed.

Yes, it has been brought up. Also tucking the bottoms of the shorts into compression undergarments. Shorts were not designed to be worn either way now were they?

If they like shorts tucked, maybe players need to start wearing knickers. Those were designed to be worn that way. Are those legal in basketball?:cool:

Knickers ...
 

NFHS Basketball Rules Interpretations - 2018-19

SITUATION 6: A1 has tucked the bottom of his/her shorts into the tights being worn. RULING: Illegal. The referee shall not allow the player to enter the game or direct the player to leave the game until the shorts are removed from inside the tights. After making the correction, the player may re-enter the game at the appropriate time for a substitution. The uniform should be worn as the manufacturer intended it to be. (3-5-5)

You get paid for scrimmage? I don't ever recall being paid for scrimmage. I worked first scrimmage in South Dakota last night and the coach gave us a Starbucks gift card. I thought that was a nice touch.

Scrimmage I wouldn't enforce it but its a scrimmage. I would explain to coaches and player how we were told to enforce it so they could prepare for regular season.

Roger

In Wisconsin, they're all paid. Usually a game fee.


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Unintended Consequences ...
 

We started a new scrimmage policy about eight years ago. Previous to the change, we either used to sign up for free scrimmages at our preseason local board meetings, or we would get calls from local coaches with whom we previously had some type of relationship, usually hometown coaches. The scrimmages were "free" but we would often walk away with a twenty dollar bill in our pocket, or get a free T-shirt, or get a grinder, or a couple of slices of pizza. Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals. Under the old system, I would often work a half dozen, or more, scrimmages, choosing to work games either near my home, or near my work. These scrimmages really got me prepared for the upcoming season.

Under our new paid scrimmage policy we are assigned scrimmages, as much as fifty miles away, by our assistant assignment commissioner through Arbiter and get paid $50.00 each, minus the 7% commissioner's fee, for a two hour scrimmage (three officials assigned, two person games, rotate on and off the court between periods, usually six periods, four varsity, two junior varsity).

Now that we get paid, everybody, 325 local board members, wants to get in on the money, so guys that never wanted to work scrimmages in the past, now can't wait to get some cash in their pockets. Since the change, I have never been assigned more than three scrimmages, it's usually only one, or two.

This scrimmage policy change was encouraged by our state interscholastic sports governing body. Several sports (field hockey, ice hockey, lacrosse, soccer) were having problems getting free scrimmage officials, so our state association encouraged all sports officials to charge for scrimmages, assigning games in much the same manner as regular season assignments.

Enough free officials showing up for basketball scrimmages was never a problem previous to this policy change. Those of us who wanted to work scrimmages, worked scrimmages, and the problem was never not enough basketball officials working scrimmages, but too many, with four, or five, of us showing up for a two hour scrimmage, only getting to work couple of periods.

Sometimes getting paid isn't always better. There are often unintended consequences.

Scrimmage Fashion ...
 

Fashion issues (except for safety issues) are never enforced in scrimmages here. I don't know if it's policy, or tradition, but players never wear uniforms in Connecticut scrimmages. Players often wear T-shirts, or reversible scrimmage vests, and are dressed as they would for practice. I had a scrimmage a few nights ago where every foul that I reported, for both teams, was charged to number zero, because nobody had a number on their T-shirt.

You guys were and continue to be fools. My time is too valuable to work games for free or even less than a full game fee. If there are multiple levels/games then the pay needs to be multiple game fees.

While we don't penalize for fashion police infractions during scrimmages we do let teams know of them so things don't come up during the season.

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Be True To Your School (The Beach Boys, 1963) …
 

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.H...=0&w=212&h=166

A good result of the change to board assigned scrimmages for a fee is that I'm no longer the "go to guy" to recruit and organize local officials for my hometown high school boys and girls scrimmages.

As a teacher in the school system, and as a basketball coach in school system, and as an official living in town, with children playing interscholastic sports in the school system, I was always asked to get officials for both the boys and girls programs at the high school. Most of this took place before the common use of email.

I never had a problem being asked to organize the officials, or getting officials to volunteer for the games (we all viewed it as providing a service to our home town high school, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far, it was never viewed as a burden), as long as things went smoothly. By smoothly, I mean the two head coaches, or the athletic director, call me with their "home" scrimmage dates, I make few phone calls, fill the slots, and I'm done.

But it never seemed to go smoothly. Invariably, scrimmages based on nothing more than a handshake between coaches, would get canceled, or postponed, and it would be up to me to call the scheduled volunteers and to reschedule them, or add new officials if the original officials weren't available for the rescheduled dates. Today, with modern email, it wouldn't be as big a problem, but back then I spent a lot of time on the phone.

That gave me a very small taste of what is was like to be an assigner, and it was a very bitter taste.

God bless all you Forum members who are assigners. Whether you do it for big bucks, little bucks, or no bucks (assign your local recreation games to give you first crack at the games), you don't get paid enough as far as I'm concerned.

I wake up on a beautiful snowy morning and say, "I'm lucky to live here in New England", while you assigners wake up on such a morning and say, "Oh shit".

Ounce Of Prevention ...
 

Agree. Talked to a girl the other night with a Skylar Diggens headband and another with a white headband and maroon leg sleeves. Coach overheard me and said that he hadn't passed out uniforms yet and that hadn't yet addressed equipment color issues with his team.

Service ...
 

I see your point johnny d, but fool is a pretty strong word.

Free scrimmages always had a positive effect on relations between the officials and the coaches, athletic directors, and principals.

We all viewed it as volunteering a service to the high schools in our area, in many cases, in our hometowns, and an opportunity to get ready for the season, without having to travel very far (if it's too far, don't volunteer), it was never viewed as a burden.

You want to work free scrimmages, you work free scrimmages. You don't want to work free scrimmages, you don't volunteer for them, nobody's holding a gun to your head.

There was never a problem with getting officials to volunteer for these free scrimmages. I would volunteer for three or four, all close to home or work, all at convenient times for me. When the season started, I was fully prepared after a nine month layoff.

Since the change to assigned paid scrimmages, I often get fewer than I need to prepare myself for the season. A few years ago, I only had one assigned paid scrimmage, a small school girls scrimmage, and then had boys regular season opener between two competitive teams that I wasn't fully prepared for.

Like I said, it was never seen as a burden, it was more of an opportunity. The players needed to get ready, we needed to get ready.

I would never work a full season for free, now that would be quite foolish, but a few games, in a relaxed atmosphere, close to home, at convenient times, with grateful coaches, athletic directors, and principals, no problem, as long as it's strictly voluntary on my part.

I volunteer to work Special Olympics Unified Games every year for free, does that also make me a fool?

Generally speaking, I have never worked a scrimmage where officials were not paid. I indeed have volunteered my services and I never accept money if officiating a scrimmage featuring one of my kids playing.

I may be a fool for other reasons but it seems difficult to label a volunteer a fool. As a parent of players, instead of working concessions or providing other parental services, I offer to officiate scrimmages without pay.

I Pity The Fool ...
 

Well stated, very specific situation, but nevertheless, well stated. Thank you.

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In AZ they are assigned by the state and we are not paid, not even travel. AZ is in a mess right now with new coordinator of officials. I had 1:00+ drive each way last one I did. If you don't work scrimmage, supposedly you are not eligible for post season. I've never pushed it to see.

Probably not the way the manufacturer meant the shorts to be worn. But why go there?

Now Don't You Feel Foolish ???
 

Sounds to me like a big tax write off, especially when you factor in your three martini (shaken, not stirred) halftime intermission.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.4...=0&w=300&h=300

Also sounds like a violation of independent contractor laws, but again, not really worth pushing usually.

All scrimmages are unpaid in SC. In my district they are assigned, however generally we send 5-6 officials to a school so they can rotate in and not work the whole thing. We have to work a minimum of two. Generally schools do 5-7 10:00 running clock periods.

I'm completely opposed to free labor, however many officials (and the schools, of course) don't agree with me.

That being said, I put up with zero BS in scrimmages and have threatened to leave when coaches/players are acting up. Generally everyone behaves themselves in these settings. Only one time have I actually left, when a coach notorious for being a jackass just couldn't control himself. Of course I got the expected, politically correct "you owe it to the schools to be here" spiel, and I couldn't care less.

In South Carolina you are supposed to lose rating points if you don't work the minimum number of free scrimmages, which affects how far you go in the postseason. Not sure how strictly that's enforced.

Many states place restrictions on officials that would probably be considered violations of IC laws if someone really wanted to make a big deal about it. My state is one of them.

Don't Mess With Bill (The Marvelettes, 1966) …
 

Thirty-eight years and only one problem, a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away. Notorious Catholic school hothead coach from a different little corner of Connecticut travels for an hour across the state into our local area to scrimmage my local hometown high school, also coached by a notorious hothead.

My hometown hothead knows better than to mess with Bill (every year I was in charge of recruiting "free" officials for his scrimmages), but the visitor hothead doesn't know me from Adam, so he starts whining and yelling to the point where, had it been real game, he would have been charged with a technical foul (from a guy, namely me, who has some pretty thick skin).

I almost pulled the pin on the technical, but then realized that it was only a scrimmage, the score was reset at the beginning of each period, so why bother. I stopped the game and calmly explained to him the futility of a technical foul in a scrimmage and then stated calmly that if he continued with his shenanigans, that despite the futility, I would still charge a technical foul, charge another one if needed, eject him if a second one was charged, only allow his assistant coach to coach, and if he didn't comply, I as the referee, would declare a forfeit, the scrimmage would be over, we would be walking out the door, forcing both teams to continue the scrimmage with no officials.

I'm still not sure if it was a bluff on my part, or not, but it worked.

Enjoy The Marvelettes:

https://youtu.be/7LXQtI4a6ew

One time when the visiting coach for a scrimmage of mine was acting up (he was new and wasn't familiar with any of the officials), I told the home coach that we were going to leave if he didn't chill. The home coach reasoned with him and he calmed down.

Some people will say "you should treat it like it's a real game." Well when they start playing normal game rules in scrimmages and pay us like it's a real game, then maybe I'll do that. Otherwise it's a no-win situation to stick around and get chewed on, and giving a technical foul won't make things better; they won't comply since "it's just a scrimmage." Put the ball on the table and go home.

Like Pouty Kids ...
 

Better yet, take the ball home with you, like we did when we were pouty kids.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.e...=0&w=300&h=300

Or you could just want to get better and any fee is a bonus.

But your time is too valuable to get better I suppose?

Well said. I've volunteered for many scrimmages and lower level games.

I like to help the coaches/kids/schools/whatever out.

PLUS, it's a chance to get better and improve. I guess my time isn't too valuable for that.

Ah, another holier-than-thou remark.

As long as it's truly voluntary.....


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Voluntary ...
 

Agree 100%.

Here in my little corner of Connecticut, when we used to work free scrimmages, it was always 100% voluntary, with absolutely no strings attached, most times our assigner didn't even know who was volunteering.

No strings tied to assignments, promotion, tournament, "good standing", etc.

Not necessarily holier than thou. I just can't stand officials that think they are above stepping on a court for free and doing so is above them.

Mens rec league? I get it. I just believe in helping people out while taking the opportunity to get better and get some rust off. Let's not forget that it can also help you in the long run when the prime contracts are needing officials.

I'm missing what you are getting it.

Yes, it's truly voluntary. I like to officiate and I like to help people out. Because of the crazy fans/parents, it's hard to get regular joe's to volunteer. I don't mind at all stepping in for that.

Help somebody out, get some exercise, get better, get some rust off. To me it's nothing but a positive thing. Perhaps that is far different in other areas of the country.

Now I see!!!!!!

After reading BillyMac's response, I see what you were saying.

Yes, it truly is voluntary. I'm also not blind that doing favors for people helps you in the long run. Do I get some better contracts/prime games for helping people out? I suppose I probably have. Honestly, that isn't even on my list of reasons for why I volunteer and work for free.

I don't know how it is where most of you guys live, but local YMCA tourneys can't get good officials because of the screaming from crazy parents and coaches. I love stepping in and helping. Just wish I could get more guys to do the same.

Vote Early, Vote Often ...
 

Back when we were working free scrimmages, I'm sure that many officials kept in mind that here in Connecticut coaches vote for state tournament officials.

"Who was that guy that worked our scrimmage for free? BobbyMac, or something like that? Yeah sure, let's vote for BobbyMac.

Damn, I knew that I should have signed the book. But there was no book at the table. It was only a scrimmage. Next time I'll wear a name tag.

You implied he didn't care about getting better because he didn't want to work for free and valued his time by doing things other than officiating free scrimmages. Sorry, but not everyone lives to officiate high school basketball.

So yes, you were being holier-than-thou.

That's the YMCA's fault as far as I'm concerned. I have no sympathy for organizations that pay lip service to "sportsmanship" and "thinking about the kids" while simultaneously letting faux coaches and little Johnny's dad run loose.

And wreck/travel ball officials that sell their souls to make minimal cash working unorganized street ball don't do any favors for the officiating avocation as a whole.

Frankly, this mindset (not yours, but the "for the kids" one) has kept game fees low while teams seem to be able to afford new uniforms seemingly every year.

We have conferences who have raised fees only $10 over the last 25+ years.

There's no shame in wanting to be paid for our work. Schools see value in having officials and not coaches with whistles for scrimmages. Officials should be paid for their time and labor just like in any other job.


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Exactly. It's also a large part of why conditions/pay in offseason tournaments haven't gotten better.

If the schools want free officials, let the parents who b*tch in the stands do it.

Coaches Biggest Problem With New Rules ...
 

As far as I’m concerned, this is the fault of YMCA league officials(and by that I mean the people who run the league, not the officials who referee the games) failure to hold their parents and coaches accountable for the values of sportsmanship they claim they stand for. As officials, we can only do so much. If league officials won’t back us, or take extra steps when the same parents and coaches constantly get out of line, many of us will choose to spend our time doing something besides putting up with that crap.



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And according to him, we don't care about getting better or giving back by choosing to spend our time elsewhere. :rolleyes:

Quite frankly, I don't owe anything to "the kids." Playing basketball is a privilege. If the kids' parents and coaches and the league directors run off all the officials, too bad.

What does above or beneath have to do with it? Maybe some officials already volunteer and help people out in other aspects of life, and don't feel like doing it for sports. Maybe some officials spend money on camps in the off-season and don't feel they should also have to spend more of their free time on a court without getting compensated. Maybe the teams that are scrimmaging are teams that traditionally treat official like crap. Maybe some officials feel they should get compensated for their services and talents because this is a business. Maybe some officials have spouses who tolerate the paid gigs but aren't too understanding when their significant other is away from home volunteering more time on the court.

Our coaches don't get to vote for state tournament officials. I guess that can be a good and bad thing. Probably mostly good that they don't vote.

Agree to disagree. The way I took his response, and why I hate communicating online, is that we was above doing an officiating for free. To each his own, but I truly believe that we should all volunteer to some degree with the skills and knowledge we have.

My experience officiating for free/volunteering is it's not that the coaches and parents are that bad. It's that most people have thin skin and one little comment turns them off from officiating. Most people aren't confident or skilled enough and the slightest of comments turns them off from volunteering/helping out. I just think more guys like ourselves could help out more. It doesn't make you a bad person if you don't.

Nice attitude you have. You sound like somebody that will only get on the court if you are paid. That's fine. Everybody is free to make their own decisions and do what they want. I like to volunteer and help out when I can. You don't have to.

Perhaps. Nobody will say you are wrong, but we were talking about volunteering/doing scrimmages. Nobody brought up the long list of "maybes" that you did. To each their own.

Sounds like the difference between you and me is I don't view officiating as a "business". I already have a career. Officiating is a fun hobby that makes me a little money while getting exercise. Getting paid to exercise!!!!! It's quite unbelievable! I just believe that volunteering/working for free for me has been far more beneficial than not. It doesn't make a better person/official by choosing to do so.

See A Pattern ???
 

As much as I love officiating, with some exceptions, I wouldn't do it for free.

Fees, traffic, fines, dues, traffic, insurance, traffic, travel, traffic, meetings, traffic, camps, traffic, clinics, traffic, uniforms, traffic, shoes, traffic, equipment bags.

Did you consider traffic?

Connecticut, Mohegan, "Beside The Long, Tidal River" ...
 

It's New England, "You can't get there from here".

My local area is bisected by the mighty Connecticut River, with only a few bridges that cross the river, forcing one to travel through heavily congested rush hour traffic on the few major highway bridges that cross the river. No such thing as a back road shortcut.

And the two ferries don't run in the winter.

If the officials are working for free they shouldn’t have to tolerate any nonsense. Has nothing to do with having thin skin. And if you yourself tolerate crap in those settings, guess what? You’re part of the problem. If you care so much about giving back and getting people to stick with officiating, start putting your foot down and stop being passive and tolerating s*itty behavior.

There are too many officials that want to show everyone how tough they are that they think it’s beneath them to uphold sportsmanship standards (which is, by the way, a rule).

But I forgot, you’re the guy who went like 500+ games without whacking a coach. :rolleyes:

Nope, we’re required to do a couple free scrimmages is every year. I do the minimum and more if we’re in a bind. That doesn’t mean I have to think it’s right to work for free without volunteering. Nice try, though.

Why in the world would I take MORE time away from my daughter and not be compensated for it??? Who are all of these wonderful people who give up their weekend for free? Could this be a reason there is a shortage? We are expected to love it so much that we’ll do it for free? Count me as one of the shitty people on this board, I have NO interest in working another job for free. Yikes.

Ha ha ha!!!!!!! Yeah I suppose it takes longer to get a game than it would take to actually do a game and makes volunteering not worth it. Not really a problem where I live.

I'm curious about a few things you listed. What do you mean by "fines" and "insurance"? Part of our fee that we pay the state to be an official goes for insurance. That's the only insurance anybody has here.

You have a serious attitude problem and are looking for confrontation. You must be a pleasure to be around.

You must be the tough guy that walks in the gym, wants to be seen, and announces his presence with authority. I don't know anybody that wants to "show how tough they are" and not uphold the rules of sportsmanship. On the other hand, you seem like the guy that goes overboard and wants everybody to know you are in charge. See? It can go both ways.

I never said that me or any other official that is donating their time is putting up with a lot of nonsense. I said/meant regular joes that could be volunteering won't because of ONE little comment that turns them off. Whether that's from a kid, a coach, or a spectator. Regular joes have thin skin and won't put up with even ONE comment. Your reading comprehension is poor. It seems to me that when people see an actual official show up, the behavior is pretty good. It's hard for regular joes to volunteer because the behavior changes from the coaches, players, and crowd.

I never once said I was putting up with $hitty behavior when I volunteer. So, before you say I'm part of the problem and anoint yourself the leader of officials, try to grasp what I am saying. Thank you very much for the reminder on the sportsmanship rules.

Yes, I went quite a few years of my career without having to whack anybody. That has since changed. I'm not sure why it's so hard for you, and others, to believe that in parts of the world we have grown ups that don't act like Bobby Knight and don't need to be whacked. With the way you are acting towards me, and your confrontational attitude, I can see why you have probably had to hand out your share of Ts in your life. I probably have a style that doesn't cause coaches or players to boil over and display bad sportsmanship. If you are dealing with that a lot in your part of the world, I feel bad for you officials. Is it the lack of maturity from the adults in your area or is it the fault of the officials? You tell me!

Congrats on being forced to do free scrimmages. I'm sure people are excited to see you show up with your guns ready to fire should someone even dare look at you wrong.

Nobody said you are a shitty person or that you should do anything for free. You are free to decide what works for you and your family.

I suppose when you can choose from quite a few opportunities to work for free that are right down the road, the time into it isn't that much and that makes it more attractive for me and others. That's how it is for me.

I enjoy officiating and am always looking to get better. I don't view it as time away from my family, or doing a job for free. I have a career where I make money. This is a hobby that we get paid to do. Doing it occasionally for free is enjoyable for me. It doesn't have to be for you or anybody else. The tone some of you guys are throwing out there about working for free is ridiculous. Is it all about money for most of you or is it about giving up your free time?

Just so we are clear, NOBODY is a bad person for not working for free. This all started because someone made the statement they would never work for free. That's fine. You don't have to and I will occasionally. I think the skills and knowledge we have can be used to help out sometimes for free. That is all.

I have thoughts about why a few people volunteering to work for free is a bad idea, but I'll come back to that when I have more time.


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I look forward to hearing back from you and getting a different viewpoint without getting yelled at or talked down to.

A "Laundry List" Of Fines ...
 

Many IAABO boards have access to voluntary supplemental insurance provided by the Borden Perlman Insurance Agency. It's a bargain at $7.00 each year, especially the death benefit for those without life insurance that could help a family pay for a funeral, and the accident insurance for those that don't have their own medical insurance.

Accident Medical
$25,000 Excess Accident Limit
$25,000 Physical Therapy
$25,000 Dental
$10,000 Accidental Death
Liability $5,000,000 Per Official/Per Location
Game Fee Reimbursement
100% of Game Fee up to $50 per game
$2,000 Max Payout

We have a "laundry list" of fines:

Missed game assignments – full game fee
Game turn-back due to not blocking date in the Arbiter - $15
Arbiter Late Partner Evaluation (submitted more than 7 calendar days from assigned game date): 2 to 3 Late or Missed - $25 Total; 4 or more Late or Missed - $50 Total
Missed Meeting(s): A fine of $25 will be assessed for each meeting not attended beyond one permitted missed meeting.

My first year, in ancient times © Mark T. DeNucci, Sr., 2018, the new guys were often assigned to work some men's recreation leagues (no more). I forgot to put a triple header on my calendar, and was a no show. I could of been fined three game fees, a steep penalty (plus I lost the three game fees, in essence a six game fee fine) for a low paid (at the time) teacher with a young family, but our treasurer took pity on me and only fined me a single game fee, dodged a bullet there.

We also have late fees, and possible assignment penalties (half season, full season), for paying one's dues, fees, or fines, late, or if one bounces a check.

Membership Dues Late Payment Fee - $50
Game Assignment Fee (7%) Late Payment Fee - $50
Late Payment For All Fines Fee - $50
Returned check fee is $25

Penalty for Non-Compliance Membership Dues and Game Assignment Fee
If not paid by April 4 – Eligible for Assignments January 15
If not paid by May 1 – No assignments for the entire season

Penalty for Non-Compliance with Fines
No Assignments for the entire season (if not paid within 60 days of Fine letter)

We have a new one. Attendance at the year end banquet requires a $20 deposit that you get back when you attend the banquet. We were paying for too many "no show plates" each year.

I had a last minute family emergency last year and lost my $20. I wonder if I can deduct that from my taxes as a business expense. I'll check with my tax accountants, Dewey, Cheatem & Howe.

Wow! That's a lot of stuff. Some of those same fines apply to us, but a lot of them do not apply to how we do things.

I totally understand the insurance part of it. That's a great deal! I already have medical and life insurance, so that wouldn't mean much to me, but it could mean a great deal for many people.

How does your fine system have anything to do with working a scrimmage for free/volunteering?

Thanks for the conversation and information.

If I misinterpreted your tone as holier-than-thou, my apologies. No sarcasm there. To me, it came off as "you guys aren't willing to do this for free???????" Almost incredulous.

I enjoy doing this. I truly do. I should add in the qualifier of "most nights." But I work 4-5 nights a week of varsity games due to the shortage of officials in my area, and I'm just not interested in doing it for free. I did some free work a few years back when I was a new official, and I did not enjoy it. Coaches still treated us poorly, the kids didn't thank us, and the parents were just as bad.

I spend my summers trying to get better by going to a camp or two, working paid scrimmages, and enjoying my time off from teaching and coaching (to a certain extent). Maybe I just don't have a lucrative enough career to ref for free. Who knows. What I do know is that I value my time with my family much more than I value "giving back" to kids who don't thank me, coaches who act like jerks, and fans who don't know the rules. Maybe those involved act differently in your area but that's how it is here.

What A Cute Little Boat ...
 

This is what we call a "ferry" in Connecticut:

https://tse2.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.-...=0&w=249&h=161

It's the nation's oldest (1655) continuously operating ferry service, more of a tourist attraction than a mode of transportation.

Paid Scrimmages ...
 

Nothing to do with each other.

We no longer volunteer to work free scrimmages.

Scrimmages are treated like any other assigned game. All fines apply, including the 7% assignment fee.

The difference is that we only get paid $50.00 (instead of usual Varsity Fee $97.17; Sub Varsity Fee $63.05), for three assigned officials who rotate into a two person game for six periods (about two hours).

So, in essence, the schools are getting about $240 worth of officiating for a scrimmage discount price of $150.

https://tse1.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.l...=0&w=441&h=162

Who's Scott Free ???
 

I'm curious. What do your guys get away with scot free (Yes Mr. President, it's not scott free), that our guys get fined for (other than partner evaluations)?

With 325 guys on our local board, we've got a few knuckleheads who would make life really difficult for our treasurer if these fines were not in place.

A lot of states don't have "associations" or "boards" dishing out assignments. If a conference assigner gets annoyed with someone, (s)he's free to not use him/her.

Given your history of gloating about how "thick" your skin is and how few T's you call, you shouldn't be surprised that you don't get the respect on this forum that you think you should. Some of the best officials I know issue the most T's. Just look at Scott Foster.

I can imagine you're the official that laughs with the coach the whole game and makes everyone's job harder by not handling business.

Implying that officials who issue more T's than you and have a lower threshold for BS have "thin skin," "rabbit ears," "want to be seen," or any other fanboy-speak does make you a part of the problem, whether you like it or not. Have you ever considered that maybe your threshold is abnormally high? Doubt it.

My apologies. Definitely didn't want to come off like that.

I too work 4-5 nights per week of varsity action. It's not like I work a free game every week. A couple of times per year. A couple of camps in the summer.

Once again, it sounds like a lot of you guys have coaches, players, and parents that are just more disrespectful than what I have seen. That's too bad and I can see how it contributes to your decision of not working for free.

Thanks for the conversation!

I see. Thanks for the info. I totally understand your stance.

Well for one, we don't do partner evaluations so there are no deadlines and fines for not doing one on time.

We don't have a "Game Assignment Fee Late Payment Fee" Not sure I understand what that is.

We don't tack on late payment for fines fees.

We don't have a missed game assignment fee/fine. Then again, we never have guys that "no show". Guys might need to drop games, but they find a replacement for themselves. We don't use Arbiter, so anything associated with that doesn't apply to us.

We don't have missed meetings penalties. If you don't hit the required number of meetings you are ineligible for post season.

I think that's it. You guys have a lot more "stuff" to deal with.

We don't even have conference assigners. Each individual school schedules the officials they want.

I never said there is a certain level of respect I deserve or am looking for. I just don't equate handing out Ts to being a good official. Great officials do hand out Ts, but that's not the measuring stick of being a great official. Sometimes it means you are looking to get noticed. I think we have all worked with guys like that.

I've handed out a few now, but it took a long time to get in that situation. As I said before, it sounds like the adults/coaches in your various parts of the country have more problems with behavior than what I experience.

I don't laugh with coaches. I pretty much ignore them the whole game and officiate the game. I don't care what they have to say, but if something really needs an explanation, they get it quickly and without holding up the game. I can't speak for any of my partners, but I don't believe I'm making anything harder for anybody. I have rarely had a partner that feels the need to "handle business". Once again, handling business does not necessarily equate to handing out Ts. Necessary tool sometimes, but not most of the time.

My threshold must be just fine as my "handling of business" falls right in line with the other officials. Have you ever considered that your threshold is abnormally low? I doubt it. Do you think you are gaining respect by handing out Ts? Sometimes it's necessary, but it's not common in my area. It must be much more common in your area.

I think there are problems with giving away what's traditionally a paid gig.

I've worked hard to get officiating pay up in my neck of the woods. Even with scrimmages (this applies to basketball and football), I tell schools that want me to find officials that the cost is a game fee, at minimum. After a few years, that's expected now.

So someone comes along and says "I'll do it for free" and the school is happy. Except there's now an expectation by that school the next season when that person who gave the freebie isn't available anymore. Or that school now wants to give a quid pro quo to those people and have them work their in-season games.

I have held camps over scrimmages and I gave the schools a very small discount to let me do so. Money raised went into a scholarship fund, but I never once thought to offer up the camp as free officiating.

I actually think it's worse for you in SD if there is no league/conference/association assigner. Work for free then maybe the school will throw some extra games at you. At best, it's troubling. At worse, it's unethical.

It's also up to you. But I won't assign anyone if a place isn't willing to pay the prevailing rate.

Penalty Box ...
 

At the end of the season we pay 7% of our earnings to the board. It's due by early April. If it's late there's a $50 late fee, plus you lose assignments until mid-January. If it later than early May, you pay the $50 and lose all assignments the following year.

Like I said, we've got a few knuckleheads on our local board.

You, obviously, don't have any knuckleheads in your association.

We've got 325 guys on our local board, the treasurer's job would be impossible to do without the threat of steep late fees. One doesn't ignore $50 fines. That isn't pocket change for most. And yet, we have guys who get fined every year. Forgetful, poor bookkeeping, lack of attention to detail, can't read a calendar, etc.

We had a guy a few years ago that lost his entire season schedule because he forgot to attend a mandatory new rules meeting (several sites offered, several dates offered).

I agree that when you are in charge of collecting fees from 325 you do need some threat of late fees. Thanks for all of the information and conversation!

And do not forget the traffic fines. Ouch!

Different associations in and around the DC area do things differently. Most have paid scrimmages with the normal number of officials for the appropriate level (2 for subvarsity, 3 for varsity) showing up. Those that have paid scrimmages (JUSO, MBOA, Board 12, Board 134) do not pay a full game fee.

Cardinal Basketball Officials Association does not pay for scrimmages, but they assign extra officials to scrimmages (3 for a JV scrimmage and 4 for a varsity scrimmage) to allow the officials to rotate, to let JV officials practice 3-person mechanics in extra quarters, and to evaluate transfer officials.

JUSO is unusual, because they have both paid scrimmages and classes combined with on-court training sessions. To my knowledge, no other association in the DC area conducts regular on-court training for officials.

To get back to the OP, most coaches who have problems with the new rules do so because they don't read the rules, the rules are not very relevant (ball color and shape), or the rules are confusing (the backcourt exception

Not Having To Do With The Game ...
 

Three scrimmages so far, two girls. In both girls scrimmages the coaches and girls complained about the waistband interpretation "not having to do with the game".

In a rare outbreak of common sense, PIAA just issued the following about rolled waistbands:

"The PIAA Interpretation on rolled shorts now clarifies that rolled shorts are permissible provided they do not reveal excess logos or dangling strings. Rolled shorts that reveal multiple logos or a dangling string should be treated in a similar fashion as an untucked shirt. A player wearing shorts with multiple logos shall be directed to leave the game as in 3-3-4. There is no penalty for rolled shorts provided they have a total of one (1) manufacturers logo on the garment and are worn above the hips."

I must say, however, that I have yet to see a kid wearing his/her shorts below the hips.

Sagging ...
 

Obviously, you didn't officiate in the late 1980's.

https://farm4.static.flickr.com/3927...4c6691d4_b.jpg