Big Heads

[oc]

Originally posted by sportsannouncing
I know this may spark something because it has with a select few officials I have brought this up with, however the majority of officials I work with agree with me.

First off, I'm a P. A. announcer who is also an official (I'm a refs worst nightmare, I know what I can get away with).

Second, what is up with the big-headedness and the "I'm too good for this" attitude I've seen from some officials. This is at all levels of basketball. I once announced a high school girls JV tournament game where one official made all the calls and his partner did not want to be there. The problem was, this official couldn't get a travelling call right. You must move your feet for there to be a travel (which is another post altogether) or did they invoke a new rule and not tell Dickie V about it? He's the only one that communicates new basketball rules.

Anyway, back to the situation at hand. The official threw out four fans and a scorer. As the PA announcer and tournament official, I was in my rights to inform him that he cannot eject the fans for what they say. He also informed me that there was to be silence from the fans for the rest of the game. I told him I was embarassed to call myself a member of his association and if he wanted it, he'd have to tell the fans himself. He threatened me with a technical, except I was not affiliate with any of the teams in the tournament, but with the facility. My question here is, who shoots the ball?

But after this tournament, the home team at the facility in which I worked, didn't get officiating like that but the referee was assigned several high profile games. Is there really a grading system out there? If so, then why not get fans to rate officials and not other officials. I talk to coaches, players, fans and administrators after games I do and what do I get? Helpful information. I've had fans curse at me, but when I ask them for help and they give it to me, I don't get yelled at later on and the fans don't get as riled toward the officials. I walk on the court and I'm a calming influence. Why can't all officials do this and get over the "I'm God" personality.

Thank you for your time.

Wow-when I originally read this I thought it was a joke by one of the guys here on the board. After checking out your website I can see that you are serious. A couple of questions -As a PA announcer why would you need to know what you can get away with?

What could you possibly do stupid enough to get flipped off my a Major league ump? And what's wrong with an NCAA ref giving you the cut it out sign? If you are going too far shouldn't they tell you to cut it out? Why on earth would an announcer need a backup?

Do you really think you know the rules? I bet if you and your buddy Dickie V got together and took a rules test together you would still fail. And the fans? whatever--- I know you dont believe me but just try it once. go to http://www.psboa.org/tests.html and try an old test--no cheating.

[Edited by oc on Oct 14th, 2003 at 07:03 PM]

[Ref42]

You undermine the ideals and integrity of all officials with your comments and attitude. First, if you actually are an official then you know you don't act as a "tattle tale" with the fan's and coach's around you with regard to the officiating. Secondly as an announcer you are hired by someone whether it be team or tounament oriented which means you have an agenda to please these people and are not impartial as the officials on the floor are. Thirdly with regard to your statements about ejection of fans and techincal fouls, please if you can take a look at this year's NCAA rule book (Rule 10 Sect. 5 & 6 - Pgs. 129-131) where for a page and half it talks about Indirect Technical Fouls For Unsporting Conduct By Followers. And for you and the rest of your fan followers please pay close attention to Article 4 which reads "Direspectfully addressing an official, which includes the use of profanity or language that is abusive, vulgar, or obscene". You are joke and are part of the problem for which this rule has been created!

[Edited by Ref42 on Oct 14th, 2003 at 11:04 AM]

Originally posted by JRutledge
If you were that good of an official, why are you announcing the game. Hell, I can do that.
Peace

Funny you say this. You know, I've heard a lot of people say they can announce. And it's true, anyone can announce. Just like anyone can officiate. But it takes a certain person to do it WELL, to do it RIGHT.

I'm not saying I'm the best official out there, far from it. What I am saying and really asking, is why are the same officials making the same bad calls every year? Then complaining they don't get different results. It's frustrating to hear "If I call everything, then everyone would've fouled out by the end of the first half," and have the referee believe it.

"If you call the first foul, the resulting fouls wont occur," Dick Vitale.

It's true. Plus, a player with no fouls plays differently than if he has three or four.

But this is part of the problem that's going on and until it's realized, it's going to continue. It is easily possible to go through a season without having any fights in high school games. When there was a fight at a game in Northern Virginia, the first question among fans wasn't "Who started it", it was "Who were the officials". When we found out, we understood why it happened.

I am a big proponent of high school and women's basketball and want to see it succeed. The problem is, some officials (and I don't even know if they are on the board) don't take those games seriously and let it get out of hand. It's not good for anyone when that happens.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by sportsannouncing
I'm not saying I'm the best official out there, far from it. What I am saying and really asking, is why are the same officials making the same bad calls every year? Then complaining they don't get different results. It's frustrating to hear "If I call everything, then everyone would've fouled out by the end of the first half," and have the referee believe it.

"If you call the first foul, the resulting fouls wont occur," Dick Vitale.

It's true. Plus, a player with no fouls plays differently than if he has three or four.

But this is part of the problem that's going on and until it's realized, it's going to continue. It is easily possible to go through a season without having any fights in high school games. When there was a fight at a game in Northern Virginia, the first question among fans wasn't "Who started it", it was "Who were the officials". When we found out, we understood why it happened.

When you are ready to solve the problem, as opposed to just ragging at anyone who will let you type on their board, I suggest you call the assignor of the refs you don't like, and ask him or her some neutral, information-only questions. Don't argue with the answers, just think about them.

Then go home and ask what YOU could do to help solve the problem. maybe if refs weren't getting abused by everyone in the gym, they might get out of their God-complex and call things a little more loosely. No, wait, you want refs to call tighter...

except that you "don't call anything except assault..." and that's the way everyone ought to do it...

oh, I see, that applies to boys frat ball, but you care more about girls ball? college women, does that mean, or high school?

No, you said fights are what upsets you most, so that's boys, is that high school? Or frat boys?

Okay, S.A., answer this one: Which concern are you really concerned about? I'm kinda lost...

[Rich]

Contact does not equal foul. A foul implies a disadvantage not intended by the rules.

Funny how in this thread you want all "fouls" called yet in another thread say that technical fouls are never necessary short of actual assault.

Your signature is insulting to good officials. Good officials know when they should remain in the background and know when they need to be noticed. There are times when good officials need to step up and take care of business. Those officials are noticed, are promoted, and do well in the big games.

Rich

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by sportsannouncing
Funny you say this. You know, I've heard a lot of people say they can announce. And it's true, anyone can announce. Just like anyone can officiate. But it takes a certain person to do it WELL, to do it RIGHT.

That is the point. It is easy to sit in the stands and say to officials what they should do, and you admittedly have not been in the fire and accomplished what many of us have to even question and be taken seriously. Doing a rec. game is not at all like doing a HS or college game with hundreds or thousands of fans on your back about every thing you do or not do.

Originally posted by sportsannouncing

I'm not saying I'm the best official out there, far from it. What I am saying and really asking, is why are the same officials making the same bad calls every year? Then complaining they don't get different results. It's frustrating to hear "If I call everything, then everyone would've fouled out by the end of the first half," and have the referee believe it.

Well it shows the lack of your knowledge of the game. Most fans and commentators do not even know what a foul or penalty is, but then they want to Monday Morning Quarterback (sorry it is football season for me) and tell us what we should do. Better yet, you have folks like yourself that have never been in the fire to even understand what a bad call or a good call is. What you have officiated or officiate is not of the level that these officials that you want to be critical of. One of the reasons you are getting hammered by the brass here.

Originally posted by sportsannouncing

"If you call the first foul, the resulting fouls wont occur," Dick Vitale.

Well I am a Dick Vitale fan on his enthusiam about the game and his knowledge about players and coaches. I even give him some credit for his X and O comments. But Vitale, like many other commentators do not have a clue what a foul is. Better yet, if they allowed us to look at the game from the same place, then that would be the norm. But officials are in the much better position and we do not call the game from a fixed position. We actually are a few feet from most calls and understand the rules. Considering I hear things from commentators like "moving screens" and "his feet were not set the call should have been a block." Neither of these comments are based on any rule, but I hear them every game at least once when the "all knowing announcers" educate the public about rules that do not even exsist.

Originally posted by sportsannouncing
But this is part of the problem that's going on and until it's realized, it's going to continue. It is easily possible to go through a season without having any fights in high school games. When there was a fight at a game in Northern Virginia, the first question among fans wasn't "Who started it", it was "Who were the officials". When we found out, we understood why it happened.

Well fortunately I have never had a basketball game that had a fight (at least a big one). But if you are that ignorant to think that fights happen based on what fouls are called and not called, you have a lot to learn about sports. Sometimes a rivalry has more to do with the game, but the fact that players and coaches know each other personally and do not like each other off that court or out of that arena. If you think a fight happens just because of a foul that does not take place, you need to offficiate some more. I have heard of fights that had racial overtones, cultural overtones and sometimes dating overtones. I have known fights that started because players were sleeping with the same girl. The officials might not even know of that history, but just like an uneducated fan, you make everything about the officials. I think the coaches and players help set a tone. Afterall this is just a game and if you cannot put that in perspective, then no wonder we have the problems we have.

Originally posted by sportsannouncing

I am a big proponent of high school and women's basketball and want to see it succeed. The problem is, some officials (and I don't even know if they are on the board) don't take those games seriously and let it get out of hand. It's not good for anyone when that happens.

Did it ever occur to you the players and coaches let the game get out of hand. If I call 40 fouls in a half on that does not necessarily change the tone if the players and coaches do not adjust. I have been in the double bonus for both teams and the coaches complain we called too many fouls. So we are damned if we do, damned if we don't.

Again stick to what you know and I will stick to what I know. I personally have no desire to be an announcer. Maybe because it is clear that I would not continue to churn the ignorance of the game that individuals like yourself do on a regular basis. But then again, you officiate under the big lights doing the state recognized rec. league. I am sure your fellow officials are knocking down the doors to get those games.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

[dblref]

Originally posted by sportsannouncing

Funny you say this. You know, I've heard a lot of people say they can announce. And it's true, anyone can announce. Just like anyone can officiate. But it takes a certain person to do it WELL, to do it RIGHT.

I'm not saying I'm the best official out there, far from it. What I am saying and really asking, is why are the same officials making the same bad calls every year? Then complaining they don't get different results. It's frustrating to hear "If I call everything, then everyone would've fouled out by the end of the first half," and have the referee believe it.

"If you call the first foul, the resulting fouls wont occur," Dick Vitale.

It's true. Plus, a player with no fouls plays differently than if he has three or four.

But this is part of the problem that's going on and until it's realized, it's going to continue. It is easily possible to go through a season without having any fights in high school games. When there was a fight at a game in Northern Virginia, the first question among fans wasn't "Who started it", it was "Who were the officials". When we found out, we understood why it happened.

I am a big proponent of high school and women's basketball and want to see it succeed. The problem is, some officials (and I don't even know if they are on the board) don't take those games seriously and let it get out of hand. It's not good for anyone when that happens.

Since you are talking about officiating in northern VA, here is an open challenge to you. I am a member of Cardinal Basketball Officials Association -- the premier association in northern VA. Come join our association. We have excellent officials, good officials, bad officials, and officials that seem to be like you -- ready to criticize but not ready to learn.

I'll tell you about officiating like my wife told me years ago: PUT UP, OR SHUT UP! That's how I started officiating. The ball is in your court.