Revised 2.8.4 in New '18,19 Casebook

Freddy

2.8.4: Who informs the coach when a player is disqualified on fouls? RULING: It is recommended that the ruling official be responsible for notification to the coach. The scorer is to indicate to that official when a player has committed his/her fifth foul (personal and technical or second technical foul. The official will immediately notify the coach, the timer, and then the player of the disqualification. The player is officially disqualified and becomes bench personnel when the coach is notified. COMMENT: Once the coach is notified, the disqualified player becomes bench personnel and any subsequent technical foul on that disqualified player is also charged indirectly to the head coach. (4-14, 10-6-2)

BillyMac

We have a very old, seldom used, tradition that the non-ruling official informs the coach that the player has been disqualified. It's based on the idea that if the same official both rules a disqualifying foul and informs the coach that this could add "fuel to the fire" and create a problem. I've seldom seen it used, and have never, ever used it myself.

I have this in my pregame:
Game management: If I call a fifth foul on a player, I’ll tell the coach, unless I think it’s going to be a problem.
If either of us warns a coach, or the bench, let’s let each other know about it. If one of us calls a technical foul
on a coach, the noncalling official will remind the coach that he must sit down.

SC Official

If the coach wants to act the fool after his player is DQ’d, that is his problem and I have no issue dealing with it as the ruling official. It’s not my responsibility to run away from the coach because he’s upset.

BillyMac

SC Official wrote
It’s not my responsibility to run away from the coach because he’s upset.

Agree. Regarding fifth foul/disqualification, I'm not looking for a fight, but I'm not literally running away from one. I don't like the optics.

But I would still prefer my partner to remind a coach that he has to sit (if he continues to stand) after I charge a technical foul to said coach (a long standing, oft used custom in my local board). Does that make me a hypocrite, or proactive?

SC Official

BillyMac wrote
But I would still prefer my partner to remind a coach that he has to sit (if he continues to stand) after I charge a technical foul to said coach (a long standing, oft used custom in my local board). Does that make me a hypocrite, or proactive?

Not hypocritical at all. I am the same way. The two scenarios are totally different IMO.

Though it is interesting to me how in football, the wing officials can flag a coach, stay right where they are and have no issue. Yet in basketball there’s such a stigma about the same official calling both Ts and “baiting” the coach into a second one.

bob jenkins

BillyMac wrote
We have a very old, seldom used, tradition that the non-ruling official informs the coach that the player has been disqualified. It's based on the idea that if the same official both rules a disqualifying foul and informs the coach that this could add "fuel to the fire" and create a problem. I've seldom seen it used, and have never, ever used it myself.

I have this in my pregame:
Game management: If I call a fifth foul on a player, I’ll tell the coach, unless I think it’s going to be a problem.
If either of us warns a coach, or the bench, let’s let each other know about it. If one of us calls a technical foul
on a coach, the noncalling official will remind the coach that he must sit down.

99% of the time, either the coach knows what the player did (there's no problem in staying), it's a non-controversial 5th foul (there's no problem in staying) or the coach just wants to know what the player said to get the second T (he deserves an answer and the calling official can provide the best answer).

Your solution deals with the 1%. We need that solution -- but not all the time. I would change it to "if it's controversial and you think you need to leave, do so and someone else will deal with the coach."

Nevadaref

Having the non-calling official inform the coach on a disqualifying foul was actually the NFHS mechanic for years.

BillyMac

BillyMac wrote
We have a very old, seldom used, tradition that the non-ruling official informs the coach that the player has been disqualified.

Nevadaref wrote
Having the non-calling official inform the coach on a disqualifying foul was actually the NFHS mechanic for years.

That's probably where our local (what I thought was) tradition came from.

I just don't like the optics.

BillyMac charges Blue #5 with a foul, heads to the reporting area, and reports the foul to the table. Table informs BillyMac that it's Blue 5's fifth personal foul. BillyMac scampers timidly over to his partner and tells him that Blue 5 is disqualified and could he please mosey on over to the Blue head coach and inform him of such. Partner heads over to the Blue head coach and informs him that Blue 5 is disqualified. Blue head coach yells over to BillyMac, "Hey. You didn't have the guts tell me face to face, man to man, mano a mano?".

Yeah, I made up the last part, but I still don't like the optics.

Raymond

BillyMac wrote
That's probably where our local (what I thought was) tradition came from.

I just don't like the optics.

BillyMac charges Blue #5 with a foul, heads to the reporting area, and reports the foul to the table. Table informs BillyMac that it's Blue 5's fifth personal foul. BillyMac scampers timidly over to his partner and tells him that Blue 5 is disqualified and could he please mosey on over to the Blue head coach and inform him of such. Partner heads over to the Blue head coach and informs him that Blue 5 is disqualified. Blue head coach yells over to BillyMac, "Hey. You didn't have the guts tell me face to face, man to man, mano a mano?".

Yeah, I made up the last part, but I still don't like the optics.

I pregame that if turn and start walking back towards the crew while telling them a player has 5 fouls, that means I want my partner to inform the coach.

JRutledge

Nevadaref wrote
Having the non-calling official inform the coach on a disqualifying foul was actually the NFHS mechanic for years.

And many of us stopped using that mechanic because it was silly. If you called the foul what are you running for? Much of the time the coach already knew and had someone ready to go before you even reported the foul.

Peace