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Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyMac (Post 1021674)

Most (but not all) high school officials here in my little corner of Connecticut use fists. The best that I can do is to be half wrong, fists at preliminary, open hands at the reporting site. Old habits die hard.

The fists looks much better than the open hands if you ask me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 1022110)

The fists looks much better than the open hands if you ask me.

Agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by constable (Post 1022110)

The fists looks much better than the open hands if you ask me.

I would disagree. There is a reason that FIBA, NCAAM, and NFHS prescribe the open hands signal, and the open-hands signal is the official signal in the signal chart at the back of the NBA rulebook. The FIBA signal looks like the official slaps his hips with his hands, and then closes them (Pay close attention at the 8:15 mark of the video). That seems to me to be as forceful and authoritative as the fists on hips signal approved by NCAAW and commonly used in the NBA.

The FIBA approach to reporting fouls seems to me to be more logical than either the NFHS or NBA approaches, because NFHS seems excessive and formalistic (verbally inform the offender, give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, show the consequence of the foul (designated spot and direction or number of free throws), to repeat the result (shot counts or does not), signal, and consequence at the table. The only new thing is signalling the offender's number and color), and NBA seems lazy (the foul is reported at the spot of the foul, and I don't know if the table gets informed of the foul or not), but FIBA is a happy medium (The official points at the offender with the "bird-dog" signal, and shows the consequence (designated spot and direction or free throws). For some fouls (player/team control fouls, or if a shot is involved, the official gives a preliminary signal at the spot) Finally, the official reports the result of the shot (score or no score) if relevant, the number and color of the offender, the specific foul signal, and the consequence).

I think that the lead in the OP forgot a basic fundamental, to referee the defense. He may have focused on the fact that the offensive player ran into the defender, and overlooked the fact that the defender was not in LGP (which the center did get). This may also be the explanation for the controversial Kevin Durant/LeBron James play near the end of regulation in Game 1 of the NBA Finals. Mauer may have regarded LeBron James as legal when he should not have, and called the charge on Durant. However, James did not have LGP (he was in the restricted area when Durant began his upward motion, and continued moving towards Durant, which would be illegal even if the restricted area were not in play), and this may be why Brothers also blew his whistle, and the officials later reviewed the play, and reversed it to a block by LeBron James. I know about it, because I have had many close plays as the Lead where I have had to give a charge (or call a block) due to last-second changes in the defender's action and positioning.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1022120)

I would disagree. There is a reason that FIBA, NCAAM, and NFHS prescribe the open hands signal, and the open-hands signal is the official signal in the signal chart at the back of the NBA rulebook. The FIBA signal looks like the official slaps his hips with his hands, and then closes them (Pay close attention at the 8:15 mark of the video). That seems to me to be as forceful and authoritative as the fists on hips signal approved by NCAAW and commonly used in the NBA.

The FIBA approach to reporting fouls seems to me to be more logical than either the NFHS or NBA approaches, because NFHS seems excessive and formalistic (verbally inform the offender, give a preliminary signal at the spot of the foul, show the consequence of the foul (designated spot and direction or number of free throws), to repeat the result (shot counts or does not), signal, and consequence at the table. The only new thing is signalling the offender's number and color), and NBA seems lazy (the foul is reported at the spot of the foul, and I don't know if the table gets informed of the foul or not), but FIBA is a happy medium (The official points at the offender with the "bird-dog" signal, and shows the consequence (designated spot and direction or free throws). For some fouls (player/team control fouls, or if a shot is involved, the official gives a preliminary signal at the spot) Finally, the official reports the result of the shot (score or no score) if relevant, the number and color of the offender, the specific foul signal, and the consequence).

I think that the lead in the OP forgot a basic fundamental, to referee the defense. He may have focused on the fact that the offensive player ran into the defender, and overlooked the fact that the defender was not in LGP (which the center did get). This may also be the explanation for the controversial Kevin Durant/LeBron James play near the end of regulation in Game 1 of the NBA Finals. Mauer may have regarded LeBron James as legal when he should not have, and called the charge on Durant. However, James did not have LGP (he was in the restricted area when Durant began his upward motion, and continued moving towards Durant, which would be illegal even if the restricted area were not in play), and this may be why Brothers also blew his whistle, and the officials later reviewed the play, and reversed it to a block by LeBron James. I know about it, because I have had many close plays as the Lead where I have had to give a charge (or call a block) due to last-second changes in the defender's action and positioning.

No bird dog in FIBA. There hasn't been for a few years.

Who cares what is subscribed by any mechanic. Closed fists look better when you are selling the call. And still, hardly anyone does it the other way.

Peace

Rome, New York or Rome, Italy ...

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1022125)

Closed fists look better when you are selling the call. And still, hardly anyone does it the other way.

Agree, and agree.

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 1022125)

Who cares what is subscribed by any mechanic.

In some versions of "Rome", those that are evaluating, and those that are being evaluated.

I was watching a video by Basketball New Zealand from 2011, so bird dog was probably "the thing" back then. Now, I see that FIBA officials don't bird dog anymore, because I watched multiple games of the Hungarian 2nd division, and the officials did not bird dog in those videos. Still, my point about the FIBA approach to reporting fouls vs NFHS and NBA remains.

Go to a college camp and give your block signal with hands instead of fists, and report back to us what the clinicians say to you.