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-   -   Can an NCAA Basketball Official Work Both Sexes? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103742-can-ncaa-basketball-official-work-both-sexes.html)

Matt S. Thu Apr 05, 2018 01:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1020421)
Incorrect Call said: "Unless you are working in majors (and MAYBE some mid-majors), the level of play in women's basketball is just not great. And if you are working DII or below, it's bodies all over the floor every single play, and high pitched screams the entire game after every made basket."

I wanted to clarify if he meant that lower-level men's basketball (JUCO/NAIA/DIII/DII) has a higher level of play (more scoring, more disciplined defensive play, fewer fouls) than comparable women's basketball.

What made you want to choose NCAAW basketball over NCAAM basketball? Is it because you never did IAABO ball in MA (Girls are non-IAABO there, unless I am mistaken), you found mentors that led you into women's collegiate basketball, or is there another reason?

Sent you a PM.

IncorrectCall Thu Apr 05, 2018 02:15pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1020451)
I have never heard a D2 or D3 supervisor advise against officiating HS ball. That would be the equivalent of a D1 supervisor telling his guys not to work D3 or JuCo.
Agreed. I do know of D1 assignors telling staff to stop working high school - even staff members that only 2-3 games. That's ridiculous to me.

Rich Thu Apr 05, 2018 02:35pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1020457)
Same protocol here.....if you get a college game, even same day, you take it and HS adjusts.

Every league has a different assigner here. I'm more than willing to work with an official who gets an opportunity, but it's on that person to help find a replacement and not just dump it back on me.


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SC Official Thu Apr 05, 2018 03:09pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by IncorrectCall (Post 1020459)
Agreed. I do know of D1 assignors telling staff to stop working high school - even staff members that only 2-3 games. That's ridiculous to me.
I agree with you from the standpoint that we are all supposed to be independent contractors (of course that applies to assigners as well, who can pretty much use whatever criteria they want to give assignments).

The difference is if you're working D1, even only a handful of games, you're likely getting enough D2 and lower games such that you probably don't have a ton of gaps to fill with high school games.

And if you live in my state and work D1, most HS-only officials probably don't want to work with you anyway. :rolleyes:

SC Official Thu Apr 05, 2018 03:12pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 1020457)
Same protocol here.....if you get a college game, even same day, you take it and HS adjusts.
That wouldn't fly here if you care about your rating for the way high school officiating is set up here. And I actually get it. If you're going to accept a high school game, you shouldn't be open on your college calendar for that day on the day of the game. If you get a college game a few days out, great. Don't get one? Block off and fulfill your high school assignment.

Rich Thu Apr 05, 2018 03:45pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1020462)
That wouldn't fly here if you care about your rating for the way high school officiating is set up here. And I actually get it. If you're going to accept a high school game, you shouldn't be open on your college calendar for that day on the day of the game. If you get a college game a few days out, great. Don't get one? Block off and fulfill your high school assignment.
And this is how it should be, IMO.

Frankly, there are some officials who I don't use cause they will dump games back at the last second and say "sorry, college game". Most of them are in baseball, where they will dump a scheduled HS game for a last minute rescheduled college game.

Raymond Thu Apr 05, 2018 04:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1020462)
That wouldn't fly here if you care about your rating for the way high school officiating is set up here. And I actually get it. If you're going to accept a high school game, you shouldn't be open on your college calendar for that day on the day of the game. If you get a college game a few days out, great. Don't get one? Block off and fulfill your high school assignment.
Glad I don't live in SC. All my supervisors, at each level, will let you out of game for a higher level game. Some draw the line at the 'day of' notices.

SC Official Thu Apr 05, 2018 04:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1020464)
Glad I don't live in SC. All my supervisors, at each level, will let you out of game for a higher level game. Some draw the line at the 'day of' notices.
That was my intended point-the line has to be drawn somewhere. At some point you have to block for college and fulfill your high school game, and that point needs to be before the day of. Not to mention that if you're open for college when you have a high school game, no college supervisor is going to be pleased when he calls you begging for help because you're open and you say "sorry, I have a high school game."

But yes, the rating system here is bad, along with plenty of other issues.

Raymond Thu Apr 05, 2018 04:36pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1020465)
That was my intended point-the line has to be drawn somewhere. At some point you have to block for college and fulfill your high school game, and that point needs to be before the day of. Not to mention that if you're open for college when you have a high school game, no college supervisor is going to be pleased when he calls you begging for help because you're open and you say "sorry, I have a high school game."

But yes, the rating system here is bad, along with plenty of other issues.
High School here, we can drop same day for college games. At least, the supervisors I work for.

If I want to work a particular High School game for whatever reason, then I'll just go in and block out my college supervisors. I know folks who have dropped D3 games for D1 games same day. I'm sure it comes with a little friction, but I know it has happened. It's not the most pleasant aspect of working college basketball.

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ilyazhito Thu Apr 05, 2018 08:42pm
What is the better pipeline to the NBA for officials, men's or women's basketball? AFAIK, many women work women's basketball, and get into the WNBA that way (they later get picked up to the G-League because of their experience in the WNBA). This may be because not many assigners of men's basketball see women as capable of working high level men's games, so women's basketball might be their only option until they reach the professional level. Is women's basketball a reliable way for a male official to get to the NBA, or should I focus on men's basketball instead?

SC Official Thu Apr 05, 2018 09:34pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1020467)
What is the better pipeline to the NBA for officials, men's or women's basketball? AFAIK, many women work women's basketball, and get into the WNBA that way (they later get picked up to the G-League because of their experience in the WNBA). This may be because not many assigners of men's basketball see women as capable of working high level men's games, so women's basketball might be their only option until they reach the professional level. Is women's basketball a reliable way for a male official to get to the NBA, or should I focus on men's basketball instead?
The reasons women don't work men's college are...

1) They're unlikely to get hired (just the way it is), and
2) Females with potential move up the ladder very quickly in women's basketball. Much more quickly than a male with the same or even more talent. Why would a woman with a lot of promise try and go the men's route when the prospect of having a full college schedule in 5-10 years is very realistic on the women's side and impossible on the men's side?

I'd imagine if you have aspirations of making it to the NBA as a male, then you need to work men's college, but I really don't know.

Raymond Fri Apr 06, 2018 07:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1020467)
What is the better pipeline to the NBA for officials, men's or women's basketball? AFAIK, many women work women's basketball, and get into the WNBA that way (they later get picked up to the G-League because of their experience in the WNBA). This may be because not many assigners of men's basketball see women as capable of working high level men's games, so women's basketball might be their only option until they reach the professional level. Is women's basketball a reliable way for a male official to get to the NBA, or should I focus on men's basketball instead?
The best route to the NBA is through their grassroots program. That's where you will get identified. Where you work outside of that doesn't matter. The NBA is changing up the way they accumulate talent. Used to be a time where the Big South and SEC men's staffs were pipelines. Those days are over.

IncorrectCall Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:10am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1020467)
What is the better pipeline to the NBA for officials, men's or women's basketball? AFAIK, many women work women's basketball, and get into the WNBA that way (they later get picked up to the G-League because of their experience in the WNBA). This may be because not many assigners of men's basketball see women as capable of working high level men's games, so women's basketball might be their only option until they reach the professional level. Is women's basketball a reliable way for a male official to get to the NBA, or should I focus on men's basketball instead?
To echo what Raymond said - in the current system, you will never go to the NBA unless you have been identified by one of the 4-5 scouts (JB, Al, Sampson, etc.).
Also, G-League comes before WNBA - not the other way around.

JRutledge Fri Apr 06, 2018 09:55am
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Official (Post 1020461)
I agree with you from the standpoint that we are all supposed to be independent contractors (of course that applies to assigners as well, who can pretty much use whatever criteria they want to give assignments).

The difference is if you're working D1, even only a handful of games, you're likely getting enough D2 and lower games such that you probably don't have a ton of gaps to fill with high school games.

And if you live in my state and work D1, most HS-only officials probably don't want to work with you anyway. :rolleyes:
Again, this is another "area" thing. There are not in my original state a lot of D2 at all. All the D2 schools are rather far and the conference is spread out to about 3 other states. So a D1 official is not going to likely work a lot of D2 stuff. They might work more D3 or NAIA frankly if they are not on the larger scale at the D1 level.

Peace

Raymond Fri Apr 06, 2018 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by ilyazhito (Post 1020467)
What is the better pipeline to the NBA for officials, men's or women's basketball? AFAIK, many women work women's basketball, and get into the WNBA that way (they later get picked up to the G-League because of their experience in the WNBA). This may be because not many assigners of men's basketball see women as capable of working high level men's games, so women's basketball might be their only option until they reach the professional level. Is women's basketball a reliable way for a male official to get to the NBA, or should I focus on men's basketball instead?
You should have access to Al Batista, being you are in Maryland. He can definitively answer a lot of the questions you are asking here.


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