Just when you think you know all the answers (we never really do, do we?)someone poses a question that makes you think.
NCAA Rules
Thrower in A-1 breaks the plane of the boundary line by extending the ball over the playing court. B-1 grabs the ball out of A-1's hands and begins to dribble down the court. What do we have?

You have a good play by B and do nothing.
 

Then settle down the coach

We have a good, legal steal & a fastbreak the other way! Don't have my rule book with me for the reference, but as soon as the ball crossed the plain, it became fair game.

When the game crossed the plain, it became fair game. (Chorus: On the plain, on the plain!) In Spain, in the rane.
(Chorus: In Spain, in Spain!)

Juulie, I suppose you've become accustomed to that coach's face. . .

Good one Chuck!!

Ah, my second greatest bball accomplishment due directly to my frequenting this board. :D I was B1 in a summer league game two summers ago, and scored an uncontested layup while A1 argued with the official. He was holding the ball out with one hand well over the line as if preparing to do a short flip to a teammate.

In this same throw-in situation, if B1 holds the ball that is over the plane while A1 (out of bounds) is still holding also, is it a jump ball (possession arrow), or a violation on A1 for being out of bounds?

Juulie - how the heck can you live here in Oregon and not know how to spell "rain"? :p

Mmmmmmmm!

So when the ball crossed the boundary line it became fair game.

Question then

If he then pulls it back can the inbounds player then reach across the boundary line to grab it since it has become fair game?????

Stupid question , but I know I will get a bunch of smart (a**) answers.

Thanks

That's not a stupid question:it's a good one.

The rule above no longer applies because the ball is no longer in bounds. Now the rules regarding touching a ball OOB on a throw in will apply. All you have to know is what side of the line the ball is on when the defender touches or grabs it. That will determine your call. There has been no violation by the player throwing the ball in because he simply hasn't started the throw in yet; he's still holding it.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Oct 10th, 2003 at 06:36 PM]

It goes back to the rule that reads something like:

A defender may not reach through the throw-in plane until the ball is released on a throwin.

So, if the ball is behind the line and the defender reaches through the line...it is, at a minimum, a violation and possibly a T, if the ball is touched.

Technically, the ball never was inbounds. The ball was on the inbound side of the OOB plane, but the ball still had OOB status, b/c it was in contact with a player who was touching OOB.

I know that JR knows that, and I also know it's not that big a deal. I just thought I'd point it out.

What? :confused:

Technically,the ball has to have come in bounds,or it never would be legal for the defender to grab it or slap it.In this sitch,you've got a live ball in bounds.That's why it's legal to grab or touch it. NFHS casebook play 10.3.12SitB uses that language.Once the ball goes back OOB,you now have a live ball OOB,and a different rule covers the touching or grabbing of the ball by a defender-ie NFHS rule 9-2-11PENALTY3.It now is an immediate T under NFHS rules,no warning. NCAA rules are the same,I think,but I'm going back to the ballgame.If anybody wants NCAA references,I'll look 'em up later.

PS-I know that it ain't that big a deal. As long as the right call is made,who cares what nomenclature is used.

Nobody answered my question (above).
Oh yeah, back to baseball game. Top of the 11th.

Held ball. And if A1 had the ball due to an alternating possession procedure, then the ball is awarded back to Team A for the subsequent throw-in.

All I know is that "a player is OOB when he/she touches the floor. . . outside a boundary" (7-1-1) and that "the ball is OOB when it touches a player who is OOB" (7-1-2a). The player is OOB and the ball is touching the player. Therefore, in the above situation, the ball was technically never inbounds.

Nowhere in 10.3.12SitB does the casebook mention that the ball is "inbounds" when it is slapped from A1's hand.

Case book play 6.3.5 Situation B

Chuck, you're right. The ball is OOB while only A1 is holding it, whether he is holding it over the plane or not. The ball is OOB while both A1 and B1 are holding it. The ball is also OOB during a throw-in if both A1 and A2 are holding it. The ball finally becomes in-bounds when B1, who is standing in-bounds, is touching it and A1 is no longer touching it.

Two plays should clarify this:
1. A1 holds the ball through the OOB plane and B1 grabs it. A1 never lets go and pulls the ball back over the plane to the OOB side with B1 still hanging onto it.
2. A1 holds the ball through the OOB plane and B1 grabs it and takes it from A1. A1, no longer in contact with the ball, but still OOB now reaches onto the court and touches the ball while B1 is holding it in-bounds.

I know you know what to call on both of these plays.

And note that if A1 had the ball due to any othre throw-in reason, the ball goes to the arrow, and B could get it.

...and after the T on coach A, B keeps the arrow.

I thought of an even simpler example for JR.
And with him keeping it simple is important! ;)

During normal play the ball is live and in-bounds, but gets batted away and bounces toward the stands. The ball crosses the OOB plane of the sideline, but A1 jumps from in-bounds and saves it. Did the ball ever go OOB? No, if it did it would have been a violation the whistle would have blown. Did the ball cross the plane? Yes.

So just because the ball is on one side of the OOB plane or the other doesn't mean that the ball is inbounds or out-of-bounds. It simply means that the ball is on a certain side of the plane. So JR should have written that technically the ball had to cross to the in-bounds side of the throw-in plane or else it wouldn't have been legal for the defender to grab it.

The ball's inbounds/OOB status is determined by where it last touched or is touching a player or the court. What side of the plane it is on has nothing to do with it.

I try not to respond to personal slurs on this forum,even ones that someone attempts to disguise by adding a smilie to them.I may make an exception in your particular case sometime in the future,however.

Please note that there is no smilie added to my response.

I'm sorry.
 

Didn't mean to get on your bad side. I was just teasing you a little bit. If you thought otherwise, please accept my deepest apologies.