Quiz question
 

Team A has the ball for throw in with the clock stopped with .7 tenths of a second to go. A1 throws the ball inbounds and the pass is to high and goes over everyone’s head untouched and is heading out of bounds but before it touches OOB the timer starts the clock and the horn sounds. The ball then lands OOB. What is the ruling? Who gets the ball?

The Clock starting incorrectly thereby causing the Horn to sound does not make the Ball become Dead. Team A committed a Throw-in Violation. The clock is reset to 0.7 seconds and Team B receives the Ball for a Designated Spot Throw-in where Team A had taken its Throw-in.

MTD, Sr.

I'm not letting a mistake by the timer benefit Team A here. If there's any doubt the ball would go OOB before being touched I may re-do the throw in and put the time back on the clock.

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👍
 

That is what happened in a tournament game yesterday and that is what they did. I was called about it yesterday and told the caller they got it correct. I love to quiz people and thought this would be a good one for this forum. Thank You! Kevin 👍

BryanV21:

Why would you give the Ball back to Team A? As I stated in my first comment, the incorrect starting of the Clock and the sounding of the Horn does not stop play. Team A still committed a Throw-in Violation, the type in which the Clock would never had started.

MTD, Sr.



kda89508: Just what did the Officials do which you thought was correct?

MTD, Sr.

The violation is for the throw in going OOB before being touched in bounds. In the OP the horn went off before the ball went OOB.

So, if it's clear the ball wasn't going to be touched then by all means give the ball to Team B. If you believe that the ball may have been touched before going OOB then there wouldn't have been a violation. Therefore you're only choice would be timer error and use point of interruption.

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EDIT: Now that I'm home and re-read the post I feel like adding this...
I agree the horn does not end the game. However, if a player was about to grab the ball before it went out of bounds, but stopped because he heard the horn, then I may feel obligated to assume a violation would have been avoided. The OP does sound like this was not something that would have happened, so chances are I'm doing just like you said and going with a throw-in violation and awarding the ball to Team B, at the stop of the violation (the original throw-in location), with .7 seconds on the clock.

Got is all correct
 

They did exactly as you answered. They give team B the ball and put the .7 seconds back on the clock. It was in a state semifinal game.

MTD,
The NFHS rules state that the ball becomes dead when the period ending horn sounds, unless a try for goal is in flight.

NevadaRef:

Team A has the Ball for a Stopped-Clock Designated Spot Throw-in. A1 releases the Ball on a pass that crosses the Boundary Line at the Throw-in's Designated Spot. The Ball crosses another Boundary Line and goes Out-of-Bounds while never being touched by any other Player. Team A has committed a Throw-in Violation and by Rule, the Clock should not have started, but was started in error by the Timer. The Clock starting in error does not negate the Throw-in Violation by Team A. Penalize Team A for committing a Throw-in Violation by awarding Team B a Designated Spot Throw-in at the Spot of Team A's Throw-in and reset the Clock to 0.7 seconds.

The Ball becoming Dead when the Period ending Horn sounds only applies if the Clock was started correctly, and in the Play being discussed, the Clock should have never started.

MTD, Sr.

Smart officials.

MTD, Sr.

While I understand that the clock should not have started, I don't see in my rules book where the ball doesn't become dead because it started in error.
To expand the situation, if there had been 3 seconds on the clock and the timer incorrectly started it early, then a player caught the ball inbounds which was quickly followed by the horn, we have a Case Play from only a couple of years ago for handling that. The ball becomes dead and play is halted on the horn. The officials have to adjust the clock and award a POI throw-in.

How is this play any different? What is the POI when the horn incorrectly sounds?

Nevada...there are times that your strict adherence to the rules borders on lunacy. This is one of those times. An erroneously sounding horn in this situation does not cause the ball to become dead. It's not a real period ending horn in the spirit of the rule you cited. The rest of us don't need a rule or case play to spell this out. It is an obvious interpretation at the outset.

Come on, man.

Edit: *IF*, in the officials' judgment, the sounding of the horn caused a player---who otherwise could have conceivably touched the ball before it went OOB untouched---to stop trying to go for the ball, then I concede your logic would more appropriately match the situation from the case play of a few years ago that you cited. But if everyone in the gym knows that the horn had no effect on the outcome of the throw-in pass, then I'm going with the throw-in violation and we're putting the 0.7 back on the clock. We get paid to make those kinds of decisions that aren't necessarily spelled out in the rule or case books.

Inquiring Minds Want To Know ...
 

Caseplay, or annual interpretation? Can we please see it?

Similar play in 5.10.1D where Team A throw in touches an official on the court and bounces across the floor and OOB. Timer allows :02 to run off the clock. Knowing there were :06 left in the game when the TI was administered, the officials could have the time reset. Most likely the ball touching the official prevented players from either team from catching the throw in pass. Unfair as that may seem, the throw in violation would stand according to 4-4-4. In that regard, I would say MTD and the officials are correct. I do have another thought on this but cannot post right now.

Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 

Here is the play ruling. It doesn't state explicitly what I thought that it did as the period ending horn does not sound although the timer started the clock early in these situations.

From 2009-10 Interpretations:
SITUATION 11: Team B scores a goal to take the lead by one point. A1 immediately requests and is granted a timeout with three seconds remaining in the fourth quarter. Following the time-out, Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in from anywhere along the end line. A1 passes the ball to A2, who is also outside the boundary; A2 passes the ball to A1 who is inbounds and running the length of the court. The timer mistakenly starts the clock when A2 touches A1’s pass while standing outside the boundary. An official notices the clock starting on A2’s touch (a), before A2 releases the throw-in pass to A1, (b), while A2’s throw-in pass is in flight to A1, or (c), as soon as A1 catches the throw-in pass. RULING: This is an obvious timing mistake and may be corrected. In (a) and (b), the official shall blow the whistle, stop play and direct the timer to put three seconds on the game clock. Since the throw-in had not ended, play is resumed with a Team A throw-in from anywhere along the end line. In (c), the official may put the correct time on the clock, but must make some allowance for the touching by A1 – likely 10ths of a second, if displayed. The ball is put in play nearest to where it was located when the stoppage occurred to correct the timing mistake. A “do over” is not permitted in (c), since the throw-in had ended. (4-36; 5-10-1)

Here is the problem with this situation. We have a live ball in flight from a throw-in pass. The pass is untouched and yet the signal sounds indicating that time has expired in the quarter prior to the throw-in ending. Unfortunate as it is, the timer's signal makes the ball dead BY RULE. The same is true were an official to sound a whistle, whether deliberate or inadvertent. [I'm strongly of the opinion that the ruling for this play needs to be the same whether the horn sounded or an official blew a whistle while the pass was in flight after noticing that the clock was incorrectly running.]

The following are the supporting NFHS rules.

Rule 6, Section 7 DEAD BALL, article 6: ...time expires for a quarter or extra period

5-6-2 and 1-14 state that time expires when the signal illuminates or sounds.

The problem is not resetting the clock to 0.7 as we all agree that an obvious timing error occurred. The difficulty lies in deciding which team should be awarded possession.

There are two takes on this.
A. Team A (throwing team) was in team control when the when the ball became dead. Although this is a relatively recent rule change and another part of the POI rule instructs to resume with a free-throw or throw-in, if that activity was interrupted.

B. Team B (defending team) would be receiving the ball as the throw-in pass was heading OOB for a violation by the throwing team when the horn sounded.

Given these two choices, I have to select A and give the ball back to the throwing team. It may not seem fair, but it has rule support (note: not precise rules support though, see paragraph below). Option B has no rule support. It is just an official deciding what would be the fair thing to do and invoking 2-3. This opens several problem issues. The official has to consider whether the ball was going to go OOB, get intercepted by a defender, be caught by a teammate of the thrower, etc. To many what ifs here.

Curiously, in working through this scenario, I believe that I've discovered a gap in the NFHS rules.
Consider this situation: B3 makes a FT. A2 inbounds to A1 and he begins dribbling the ball up the court. Upon reaching the division line the covering official notices that the clock has not started. The official blows his whistle to halt play. The official had a backcourt count of five.

All of us would handle this situation by removing five seconds from the clock and awarding a throw-in to Team A near the division line. However, look at the POI rule. Note the reasons for invoking it. Correcting a timing mistake isn't listed. So what is our rules justification for giving the ball to Team A?

Rule 5-8-2b. Time out occurs when an official stops play: “to confer with the timer or scorer.” Doesn’t matter if the clock is running or not. Obviously the ball would be given to Team A in your situation since they had team control when the official stopped play.

Looks like we need a casebook play
 

Looks like NFHS needs to put a casebook play in the next casebook for this play.