NFHS End-of-Period mechanic
 

Does the FED specify whether the whistle should or should not be blown to signal the end of a period? I was originally taught not to blow the whistle, but the IAABO Officials' Manual doesn't say anything about it either way. So I'm wondering if the NFHS manual states a specific mechanic. Thanks.

I can't find anything, even in last second shot responsibilities.

If I recall correctly, yes, it does...kinda. (keep in mind that I can not recall where) If there is a shot, yes, blow whistle when shot is done. In that case, horn does not end the period. If there is no shot, then do not blow whistle. In that case, horn does end the period.

Shot, horn, end of shot = blow whistle (whistle ends period)
No shot, horn = no whistle (horn ends period)

If I am wrong, someone please quickly correct me.


Update: Check rule 6-7 article 5 exceptions A and B. Also, see https://forum.officiating.com/basket...d-quarter.html

I always think to myself, thats why we have a horn. But I don't care if partners blow. Depending on the situation, I might also get one.

In my area, we're taught that the official responsible should blow the whistle at the end of the quarter, regardless of what's happening. If there's no shot right at the buzzer to wave off, I wait until the horn stops, and give a short tweet.

Clock 0:00.0 Horn - Tweet
 

We're told at various camps that you need a whistle at the end of the period, always. I usually wait until the horn stops to tweet, my rationale is the whistle probably can't be heard over the noise of the horn anyway, so let horn stop, then tweet. This may or not be "correct" by the book(s) but it makes sense to me.

around here, we are told the exact opposite - do NOT whistle at the end of a period. That's why there's a horn. No need for it. Also, don't whistle after subs come in or usual delays, unless you absolutely have to get a partner's attention or something unusual happens.

We are taught we need a whistle and it's the trail's responsibility.

You're also in Ohio, where the football officials are required to take their books to the field. ;)

This is what we do, as well.

I had a partner with an interesting mechanic I had never seen before a couple months ago. Last second shot of the 3Q, player is coming in transition, pulls up for a 3, releases the ball with about .3 remaining on the clock. Clearly got the shot off in time yet when the ball is in flight and the horn sounds I hear a steady, long, whistle. Beeeeeeeeeeeeeeep.

Shot misses and the carom comes to me. I grab the ball and go over to my partners who are huddling. I ask if someone blew the whistle and the Trail who had been responsible for the clock said he had blown the whistle. I asked if he was going to wave off the shot and he said no, the player did release it in time. I then asked why the heck he sounded the whistle while the ball was still in flight?? and he said "the mechanics book says to hit the whistle when the horn sounds to end the quarter". One of the dumbest and least practical things I've ever heard.

I can't even find what he's talking about in either the rule or mechanics book, does anyone know what he was reading/smoking?

I hit my whistle every time when it is my responsibility. We tell the players to play to the whistle, not to the horn.

Is your point that he shouldn't have had a whistle? I disagree.

Is your point that he should have waited until the try was over (made or missed)? I agree.

If I'm T or C opposite table, I'm hitting the whistle.

Also, if they're just dribbling the clock out and there's no shot to wave off, please don't do the "no shot" mechanic. An open palm in the air will do.

Some places / rules sets require an "end of period" mechanic that *can* look very similar to waving off the shot, or like a double foul, or like a full (sic) time out, or like a not-closely-guarded signal.

Exactly this. I told him to wait until the try was missed and he said “that’s not the what it says in the book”. :eek:

Guardians Of The IAABO Galaxy ...
 

Now it does:

2018-2019 IAABO Significant Manual Revisions

End of Quarter/Period Procedures. By rule, the game clock horn signals the end of the quarter/period unless there is a ball in flight on a try for goal. Officials should not sound the whistle to signify the end of the quarter/period unless they are ruling that the try was not released prior to the sounding of the horn.

As usual, when in Rome ...

This.

Definitely a when in Rome thing, obviously. Where I work, a whistle to end the period is a dead giveaway of a hack official … whereas it's clearly the exact opposite in other parts of the country.

Do as you were taught, I guess … as long as you were taught by someone good!

This mechanic is what I was taught twenty years ago and it makes sense.
The rules state that the horn ends the period, unless a try is in flight. So when there is no try to handle, what would a whistle after the horn signify? Consult your Shakespeare here. ;)

It makes sense. I don't get why I am expected to blow the whistle at the end of the period with no try when I am working non-IAABO games. Is that because the whisthe is required at the end of the period in the NFHS manual, or is it just cultural expectations? I don't blow the whistle if there is no try, unless the gym I am in has no horn (usually the case for rec games). I only blow the whistle at the end of timeouts, to begin periods, or if the throw-in comes after an extended delay.

It might signify that the horn was valid because at any other time when the ball sounds during play, we tell the players to ignore it and play on.

Free Throw Whistle ...
 

Here in my little corner of 100% IAABO Connecticut, we've recently been encouraged to sound our whistle before a free throw after a timeout. I know that it's "by the book", but not many of us do it, not now, and not over the past four decades.

End Of Period Whistle ...
 

Good point. We've heard from IAABO, what does the NFHS say?

And again, when in Rome ...

I've thought about that, but it just seems so awkward and unnecessary.

I do it. Especially helps when you are in venues that have DJ's or bands playing music during time-outs.

Isn't that just a special case of "after a timeout"? If they are just dribbling out the clock, I don't do anything, just let the horn sound. If there is anything that looks like a shot attempt, I blow the whistle and either score the goal, blow the whistle and wave it off if it is late, or do nothing.

Bands, Music ...
 

Good point.

Very Clear ...
 

IAABO is very clear regarding whistles at the end of a period, and before a free throw after a timeout.

Whether we do it or not is another story for another time in another place.

2018-2019 IAABO Significant Manual Revisions
End of Quarter/Period Procedures. By rule, the game clock horn signals the end of the quarter/period unless there is a ball in flight on a try for goal. Officials should not sound the whistle to signify the end of the quarter/period unless they are ruling that the try was not released prior to the sounding of the horn.

Time Out Procedures: When a timeout is followed by a free throw, sound the whistle prior to administering the free throw.

ZOMBIE Thread Alert

No kidding.

And nothing changes. I'll continue to blow my whistle at the end of a quarter cause it's what we do here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

The Old Refrain ...
 

As with many things discussed here on the Forum, when in Rome ...

I do things that work, not things to satisfy some organization in or out of Rome.

Peace

Face Of The Organization ...
 

https://tse4.explicit.bing.net/th?id...=0&w=300&h=300

Easy for you to say.

You're Mike.

In addition to being a highly respected and successful official (in multiple states, in multiple sports), aren't you a teacher/clinician in your local/state area?

If so, doesn't that make you the face of the "organization", a voice of authority, and one who sets the guidelines and expectations in your local/state area?

In most cases, wouldn't that mean that what "works" for you, will also "work" for all, and should be taught and passed on to new officials?

You're the leader, they follow, what you do (and teach) becomes the local/state "book".

Why would you teach something that you know won't "work" and that you wouldn't do yourself?

Set them straight.

Teach them what works for you, because it will probably, in most cases, also work for them.

When you're at the top of the officiating hill, as you are, it's easy to ignore advice from above, because there is no above.

You're the above (by both reputation and title).

You're "Rome".

You're the authority figure.

It's a different view from the bottom up.

Those below you, including new officials, should follow your leadership and sage advice, and at least initially, shouldn't be striking out with their own guidelines, especially when they have a great example in you to follow.

If they know what's best for them regarding how to move up the local/state ladder, they're probably all trying to "satisfy" you, their leader, their teacher, their example to follow, their voice of authority, and the face of the "organization".

If not sounding a whistle before a free throw after a timeout works for you, wouldn't it also work for everybody else, and wouldn't you teach that?

And then, wouldn't that become part of your local/state/Rome guidelines, maybe not in writing, but passed down by oral traditions, passed down by young officials observing you, emulating you, following your example, guidelines that new officials could follow to move up the ladder, certainly better than floundering around on their own with no guidance?

If I move out to the Midwest, and I'm encouraged to not sound a whistle before a free throw after a timeout, then I'm not sounding a whistle before a free throw after a timeout.

If not sounding is preferred by the teacher/clinician, who also happens to be one of the best officials in Illinois and Indiana, and it appears to be a "local custom", then that's good enough for me.

Why fight city hall?

What would be the point?

When in the Midwest, do as Midwesterners do.

(If the band is still playing when I'm ready to administer the free throw, then I hope that I could show some initiative and sound my whistle and not have it effect my evaluation that night.)

Note: Despite what I wrote above, I'm still a realist. We can still be successful in our locality/state by doing a few of our own things, our own way, not always "by the book" like robots, but it is nice to have a "book" to follow when we need it, especially when we're first learning something. I'm a retired teacher, over thirty years in the classroom. I hold all teachers (of any type) and all teaching/instruction in very high regard. Teaching and learning is always easier when there is a "book", written or otherwise, to learn common consistent basics. Students (of all types) look up to teachers and expect them to set them on the right path, and the smooth path, to learning and to also set a good example for students to follow. To do otherwise would be a disservice to the profession, and to the learners (students).

No, simply no one cared about these little details or was going around firing officials because they did not follow a line in a book that most of us never see or have in our possession, to care about.

I might be a leader, but no one is going around making officials do anything here. WE might tweak something an official does, but no one is going around worrying about these kinds of things. Honestly, we want people that can call the game and look like they know what they are doing. All these little details are usually personal or what they have been taught. I do not recall telling anyone in camp to blow or not to blow their whistle at the end of a quarter. All I tell them is to not blow a whistle if you are not the official ruling on the last-second shot. That should only come from the calling or ruling official.

You are being a little dramatic. It really is not that serious. You keep referring to a book that many of us never use. We do not have IAABO in my area. We do not have associations that assign every game for us. We are truely independent contractors from the standpoint that if a conference assignor likes us, they hire us. They are not regulated by some larger, multi state organization that will not give us a middle school game if we do not pass their specific test or follow their specific rules. Not how it works in either state I work.

All a clinician is in the state of Illinois is someone that is trained to run clinics for the state and follow well-known procedures followed by the state. We are not as unique as you are trying to suggest. I believe over there are 100 individuals that are clinicians in our state just in basketball. We are not the only one in our local official's association and many times we are one of many. We are not elected by our LOA. We are licensed by the state and the head clinician of that sport. I belong to associations where there are up to 6 clinicians that are members. We all do not agree on every issue or every procedure. Even when we have a periodic meeting there is debate and we have clinicians ask for clarification on certain procedures. We do not use the NF Mechanics Book and there are things that our head clinician or the state wants to do that might be a little different than what is in the book. Like there was a big thing one meeting about whether we should blow a whistle for a sub. There were people in the clinician meeting advocating that we should blow the whistle and others saying we shouldn't. Then there was a debate about if you should ever use two hands to "hold up" your partner or use one hand so they did not put the ball in play. All things that are not supported or explicitly stated in the NF Mechanics book.

Since you mentioned this I looked it up. I do not find anywhere in the NF book that says you must blow your whistle following a timeout before a FT. I believe it was there at one time, but I am not finding such a reference. All I see about a timeout to blow a whistle before a throw-in. I could be wrong, but someone would have to show me the reference to this procedure during a FT.

Also in my 24 years of officiating basketball at all levels below Division 1, I have never seen an official blow their whistle after a timeout to administer a FT except for one person. That one person I worked with often and he was the only one on the crew that did that. Our other partner and me (both clinicians BTW) never blew a whistle before putting the ball in play after a timeout for a FT. I do not think I ever asked my partner why he did that. It never came up and never was something I even saw him teach or instruct. And I am sure I have worked or witness well over 1000 officials personally. That includes all State Final officials I have witnessed or worked with and even lower level officials that work in front of me on any given high school night. And I am far from the one that taught all these people how to officiate. ;)

Again, I am not the person telling people what to do in their every day officiating. Not only do I not have that kind of power, I am not the one that officials look up to beyond some specific association I may belong to. I belong to 3 basketball associations. There are many others I have never run or been apart of the camps those officials are taught with. It is not that deep.

Well, I am the son of a college professor (retired). I know her teaching style in her field did not automatically match those of others in her field. And having been to college all teachers in my departments were not the same and did not require the same things to be successful in their classes.

Peace

Kipling Said It Best ...
 

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.R...=0&w=346&h=164

Bingo. Hit the nail right on the head.

We do not do things the same, we're very different.

When in Illinois, or Indiana, or any part therein, do what's expected in Illinois, or Indiana, or any part therein.

When in Connecticut, or any little corner therein, do what's expected in Connecticut, or any little corner therein.

When in Rome, do what's expected in Rome.

That's what I meant in my earlier post.

Also, whenever I refer to "by the book", I don't always mean an actual written book, it could also refer to a set of unwritten guidelines, perhaps discussed at a meeting, or taught in a class, not everything is written down.

I have no knowledge of this being a NFHS mechanic, or if it ever was a NFHS mechanic. We've been using IAABO mechanics for many years here in Connecticut (some IAABO boards in other states still use NFHS mechanics).

Time Out Procedures: When a timeout is followed by a free throw, sound the whistle prior to administering the free throw.

For some reason, maybe coming from a NFHS background, this IAABO mechanic has been overlooked or ignored for many years here in Connecticut, and like JRutledge, I can count on one hand the number of times over the past forty years that I've heard an official sound a whistle before a free throw after a timeout. And those few times probably had something to do, as mentioned earlier by Raymond, with the band or music playing.

Last year we were suddenly instructed (not sure by whom, international, state, or local) to follow the mechanic as outlined in the IAABO manual. Maybe it was a question on our local written mechanics refresher exam that was discussed at a meeting as being answered incorrectly on many exams?

It's still overlooked or ignored by most veterans, including yours truly. I actually tried it once last year, it seemed "weird" ("Hey everybody, look at me"). Maybe it will catch on after a few training classes are taught to sound their whistles in such situations?

Theoretically, are not all corners the same infinitesimal size? Putting little or another adjective in front of it seems like an oxymoron. ;)

Four Corners ...
 

Pick a corner, any corner.

https://geology.com/county-map/conne...county-map.gif

We call the northeast corner the "Quiet Corner" although the northwest corner is pretty quiet as well, except when the bears are growling, the fisher cats are screaming, and the coyotes are howling.

This map must look foreign to those of you who live in a state with dozens and dozens of counties.

Little Corners Of Connecticut ...
 

For those that are curious, here in Connecticut, eighteenth century blues laws in our originally Puritan colony banned the game of basketball in the four counties that are not on the four corners of the State.

They made a movie about it in 1984, it stared Kevin Bacon, John Lithgow, Lori Singer, and Dianne Wiest. Some of you may have seen it.

https://tse4.mm.bing.net/th?id=OIP.H...=0&w=297&h=168

I am glad you figured this out. You realize that people across the country do not work IAABO Mechanics. You realize that there are people literally that can read this board from all over the world, not just in your little corner. So when people talk about these things, they are not talking from your personal perspective. That should already be understood. ;)

Do you think that others are not making a similar reference? Do you think the stuff I am talking about is only in a book? The specific thing I was referencing was not what I do as if I was alone. These are practices I speak are from all over the place. If you have different teaching that is fine and expected. I do not assume that all the officials that I work with from about 5 or 6 different states are the only officials on the planet.

But you went on an on about how I was somehow leading others into something, but the reality is that the very policy you referenced you are admitting that very few people follow? Surprise!!!!!

Peace

Vive La Différence ...
 

I was speaking in the general sense, only using this issue as an easy do, or don't do, example.

Did the NFHS ever require an official sound a whistle before a free throw after a timeout?

I am pretty sure that was once in the mechanics book. It still might be there but I cannot find it at this time or it is not clearly stated (like many things).

Peace

Appreciate It ...
 

Thanks for checking (to simply satisfy my curiosity). 100% IAABO Connecticut officials haven't had access to a NFHS Mechanics Manual for many many years.

If your area does it, do it.

If not, don't.

95% of this entire thread is pointless.

Tell us how you really feel. :D

Peace

I'm surprised you didn't lock it since it was resurrected after 6 months dormancy.

I am wondering why does anyone really care how old a topic is, if we are discussing a current situation? Having been on other forums similar to this one, people bring up several-year-old topics often. After all, what was said before does kind of apply to today on some level, doesn't it? Why does it matter at all if someone comments, unless they are being totally disrespectful or doing something unprofessional? Did the ideas of this topic change in 6 months?

Peace

I don't necessarily disagree with you. My point was that the mods generally lock a thread that's revived after being idle for awhile.

I was not really asking just you, but those that would know. Bob was once a moderator. What is the big deal about a 6-month-old thread?

Peace

Agree.

In fact, continuing in an old thread of the correct topic probably makes things easier for people to follow rather than having 10 different threads about the same thing with the same questions/issues being discussed again and again.

Except that 99% of the time, a thread is resurrected by someone (usually a "newer" member who just adds essentially a "me too" comment).

If there was new / changed information, then that might be useful -- but it rarely happens.

I first posted something like this back on the McGriff's board (I think), but threads should be locked after x days of no activity, or after x posts (either we have a consensus by then, or there's none to be reached and the thread just degenerates into a re-hash of the various opinions). And, no pictures (they rarely add anything), and an individual should only be able to post once per thread per period of time.

That makes too much sense bob.

Reminds me of the classic Van Halen concert in New Haven. (This thread just became 96% irrelevant.)

I always found it odd that the Fed would allow such a critical process/procedure left up to individuals/states/associations.

Whenever I hear any official describing what the "correct" procedure is with regards to last second shots/end of period, they're always seem so emphatic that their way is the correct way...I like to ask them to show me exactly where they read it. Always **crickets**.

Maybe their way is the correct way for their area or state association. The IAABO book tells officials not to blow the whistle unless ruling a shot was not released in time, so officials in IAABO boards follow that procedure. Officials officiating for non-IAABO associations do things the NFHS way, including blowing the whistle at the end of the period no matter what.

Or officials do what they are taught to do and it is is not in any book. There are so many things we do that are not written down in a book.

Peace

Published ???
 

Point to floor for two point field goal try when shooter has a foot touching three point line.

We do this (above) in Connecticut (and I'm aware that it's also done in many other areas across the country, including non-IAABO areas). Connecticut is 100% IAABO mechanics but this signal is not published in any IAABO mechanics manual that I'm aware of. Some of us have tried to get it added to the IAABO (International) mechanics manual on several occasions, but the Grand Poobahs won't go for it.

We also do this, also not published anywhere:

Coaching boxes must be marked, if not, home team will lose the coaching box, visiting team will have the coaching box, notify commissioner.

Note: This (above) has been approved by our state interscholastic sports governing body.

Both are "official" here in Connecticut. Rookies are taught to do both, both are often mentioned at meetings, it may be in our interpreter's written notes, or written in member's notebooks, but they're not "published" anywhere.

Yet another example of, "When in Rome ..."

I swear that some people wouldn't be able to take a leak at halftime if the topic wasn't covered in a manual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Mark Padgett ...
 

It's already covered, Mark Padgett's First Rule of Officiating.

https://orjewishlife.com/mark-padget...-and-politics/

Nice article about Mark. I hope he's doing well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Things That Make You Go Hmmm ...
 

Makes one ponder how basketball games were officiated before the invention of written language.

What a novel concept.

This gave me a good cackle.

What's In The Bag ???
 

Thanks for sharing.

Reminded me of a story my Dad used to tell us. When we were kids we had a neighbor, Julie, who drove a red Cadillac convertible, but he never seemed to ever go to a job. When we would visit he always had the kitchen gas range burning, even on the hottest summer days (to quickly burn the betting slips). One day Julie gave my father a paper bag filled with something (we never knew what), told him not to look in it, and told him to put it up in our attic for a few days. My dad was pleased when he finally came and retrieved the bag.

I Got It ...
 

Novel. Book. Nice.

My point...we are in the same area/association...and there is no definitive “correct/approved” way.

We are non-IAABO. Exclusively NFHS...and again, my point is there is no NFHS way. Not mentioned in the rule book or Officials Manual. I see it vary from crew to crew. Our association can’t even agree on a “correct” procedure.

Agree...there is no "NFHS" way that I've ever seen.