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-   -   Patient Whistle? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103473-patient-whistle.html)

ChuckS Mon Feb 05, 2018 01:47pm

Patient Whistle?
 
I was L, A1 shoots a 3, with the ball in the air, I clearly see B2 push A2 about five feet across the lane. I immediately call the foul, and as I do so, the ball goes in the basket. Coach B upset (duh, lol). Do I need a more patient whistle there, and only call the foul if the shot misses, since no advantage was gained?

bob jenkins Mon Feb 05, 2018 01:53pm

In general, yes -- but, (a) five feet is a lot; (b) if the game (or those two players) had been rough and you were trying to rein it in, then call it.

shutupneff Mon Feb 05, 2018 02:03pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1016333)
I clearly see B2 push A2 about five feet across the lane.

Do you mean you saw it from five feet away, or that the push caused A2 to travel five feet? Because each version will have a different answer from me.

ChuckS Mon Feb 05, 2018 02:07pm

The player was displaced five feet, and I was not trying to rein anything in, it was in the opening minute of the game.

jTheUmp Mon Feb 05, 2018 02:10pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1016336)
The player was displaced five feet, and I was not trying to rein anything in, it was in the opening minute of the game.

In the opening minute... call it. If you don't, you'll see it happen again and again until you do call it, or you'll see some retaliation.

#olderthanilook Mon Feb 05, 2018 02:23pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jtheump (Post 1016337)
in the opening minute... Call it. If you don't, you'll see it happen again and again until you do call it, or you'll see some retaliation.

+1

Raymond Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:53am

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1016336)
The player was displaced five feet, and I was not trying to rein anything in, it was in the opening minute of the game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jTheUmp (Post 1016337)
In the opening minute... call it. If you don't, you'll see it happen again and again until you do call it, or you'll see some retaliation.

Or not call it, but communicate to the player that you saw it and.....

JRutledge Tue Feb 06, 2018 09:47am

Call all major or rough play contact that easily can be seen. If it was marginal, that is when you might be more patient.

I had a situation this year where on the FT a defender pushed down the FT shooter. I tried to wait, but they both ended up on the floor. I had to make the call, but I was not aware at the time of the ball status. I went to my partner and we determined that I had a dead ball technical. It was not controversial at all. The coach understood and everyone saw the play. Normally I would have liked to have not made that call as there would not have been a violation because the ball was scored.

Moral of the story, call what everyone can see. Because if you do not make that call, then you might have harder contact on the other end or later in the game and it will have to be called and dealt with.

Peace

bucky Tue Feb 06, 2018 12:52pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChuckS (Post 1016333)
I clearly see B2 push A2

To me, that says it all. I think everyone will agree that if they "clearly see B2 push A2" then they will call the foul.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 06, 2018 01:06pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1016389)
To me, that says it all. I think everyone will agree that if they "clearly see B2 push A2" then they will call the foul.

Not at all.

The statement is necessary, but not sufficient.

bucky Tue Feb 06, 2018 03:48pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1016390)
Not at all.

The statement is necessary, but not sufficient.

I know, thus my tagline.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 06, 2018 04:41pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1016395)
I know, thus my tagline.

I am confused. "B2 pushes A2" is not a rule -- so it can't be enforced or ignored, so I'm not sure what it has to do with your tagline.

bucky Tue Feb 06, 2018 05:27pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1016397)
I am confused. "B2 pushes A2" is not a rule -- so it can't be enforced or ignored, so I'm not sure what it has to do with your tagline.

Respectfully, therein lies the disagreement. I find the act of a push or pushing in many places within the rule book.

bob jenkins Tue Feb 06, 2018 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1016400)
Respectfully, therein lies the disagreement. I find the act of a push or pushing in many places within the rule book.

It's not one of the "automatics" so it's only a foul when it creates an advantage (or causes a disadvantage)

bucky Wed Feb 07, 2018 09:29pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1016418)
It's not one of the "automatics" so it's only a foul when it creates an advantage (or causes a disadvantage)

(now we are off topic but...)

Point me in the direction of the rule book where advantage/dis is in regards to fouls again? I forgot where that was and an immediate electronic search returned nothing.


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