Patient Whistle?

Raymond

ChuckS wrote
The player was displaced five feet, and I was not trying to rein anything in, it was in the opening minute of the game.

jTheUmp wrote
In the opening minute... call it. If you don't, you'll see it happen again and again until you do call it, or you'll see some retaliation.

Or not call it, but communicate to the player that you saw it and.....

JRutledge

Call all major or rough play contact that easily can be seen. If it was marginal, that is when you might be more patient.

I had a situation this year where on the FT a defender pushed down the FT shooter. I tried to wait, but they both ended up on the floor. I had to make the call, but I was not aware at the time of the ball status. I went to my partner and we determined that I had a dead ball technical. It was not controversial at all. The coach understood and everyone saw the play. Normally I would have liked to have not made that call as there would not have been a violation because the ball was scored.

Moral of the story, call what everyone can see. Because if you do not make that call, then you might have harder contact on the other end or later in the game and it will have to be called and dealt with.

Peace

bucky

ChuckS wrote
I clearly see B2 push A2

To me, that says it all. I think everyone will agree that if they "clearly see B2 push A2" then they will call the foul.

bob jenkins

bucky wrote
To me, that says it all. I think everyone will agree that if they "clearly see B2 push A2" then they will call the foul.

Not at all.

The statement is necessary, but not sufficient.

bucky

bob jenkins wrote
Not at all.

The statement is necessary, but not sufficient.

I know, thus my tagline.

bob jenkins

bucky wrote
I know, thus my tagline.

I am confused. "B2 pushes A2" is not a rule -- so it can't be enforced or ignored, so I'm not sure what it has to do with your tagline.

bucky

bob jenkins wrote
I am confused. "B2 pushes A2" is not a rule -- so it can't be enforced or ignored, so I'm not sure what it has to do with your tagline.

Respectfully, therein lies the disagreement. I find the act of a push or pushing in many places within the rule book.

bob jenkins

bucky wrote
Respectfully, therein lies the disagreement. I find the act of a push or pushing in many places within the rule book.

It's not one of the "automatics" so it's only a foul when it creates an advantage (or causes a disadvantage)

bucky

bob jenkins wrote
It's not one of the "automatics" so it's only a foul when it creates an advantage (or causes a disadvantage)

(now we are off topic but...)

Point me in the direction of the rule book where advantage/dis is in regards to fouls again? I forgot where that was and an immediate electronic search returned nothing.

Altor

Rule 4 (definitions) is a good place to start.

ChuckS

bucky wrote
(now we are off topic but...)

Point me in the direction of the rule book where advantage/dis is in regards to fouls again? I forgot where that was and an immediate electronic search returned nothing.

This may be it:

4-19-1 "A personal foul is a player foul which involves illegal contact with an opponent while the ball is live, which hinders an opponent from performing normal defensive and offensive movements..."

The implication being that there can be illegal contact which does NOT hinder an opponent.

JRutledge

bucky wrote
(now we are off topic but...)

Point me in the direction of the rule book where advantage/dis is in regards to fouls again? I forgot where that was and an immediate electronic search returned nothing.

Rule 4-27-2 that basically says,

Contact, which may result when opponents are in equally favorable positions to perform normal defensive or offensive movements, should be considered incidental.

Hope that helps.

Peace

VaTerp

4-27-2 goes onto say "even though the contact may be severe."

One of my favorite rules references.

bucky

I know all that stuff. I was asking for the location of the words "advantage/disadvantage" in the rule book in regards to fouls.

Also, not sure how a clear push, with someone being displaced 5 feet, could not result in an advantage/disadvantage situation. There would be no reason for the push in the first place. The OP described something that was not incidental. If it was incidental, then there would be no OP.

Altor mentioned definitions. Sure, no problem, check section 37 Rebounding, article 2 a.

You win, not responding to this thread any more. Rest easy knowing that when I see a clear push as described in the OP, a foul will be called. If someone can find the words "advantage/disadvantage" in regards to fouls in the rule book, start a new thread with the location, lol. I am hopeful that a 5 feet displacement will not equal an advantage or disadvantage, lol.

Hey ChuckS, if you see a player clearly get displaced 5 feet, I strongly urge you to call the foul. Can anyone argue with a clear, 5-foot shove? And if you don't, the next clear shove might result in a 10 foot displacement.

JRutledge

Those are the references that say the same thing that the words "advantage/disadvantage" mean.

So since you said a push took place, that does not mean it influenced the play outside of the normal movement of a player. 😉

Peace