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-   -   AP throw in question. (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103449-ap-throw-question.html)

thumpferee Wed Jan 31, 2018 09:18pm
AP throw in question.
 
A1 has the ball for an AP throw in. Obviously the arrow is pointing toward team A's basket. A1 throws the ball across court OOB untouched. Does the arrow change after the throw in? Where should the arrow be pointing after the throw in and where should it be pointing after team B successfully throws the ball in?

:o

Answers: Yes! Toward Team B.

bucky Thu Feb 01, 2018 12:36am
NFHS Case 6.5.4 Sit A.

bob jenkins Thu Feb 01, 2018 08:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1016026)
A1 has the ball for an AP throw in. Obviously the arrow is pointing toward team A's basket. A1 throws the ball across court OOB untouched. Does the arrow change after the throw in? Where should the arrow be pointing after the throw in and where should it be pointing after team B successfully throws the ball in?

:o

Answers: Yes! Toward Team B.
When does the arrow change? Did any of those things occur? Is B's throw-in an AP throwin?

thumpferee Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1016048)
When does the arrow change? Did any of those things occur? Is B's throw-in an AP throwin?
The first of your questions was my original question. When does the arrow change?

The ball was never legally thrown in, so the arrow wouldn't change until B legally throws the ball in. Correct?

B's throw in is due to the violation by A. Correct?

What if B violates during that throw in? Arrow still toward A. Correct?

Tx in advance!

Raymond Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:25am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1016059)
The first of your questions was my original question. When does the arrow change?

The ball was never legally thrown in, so the arrow wouldn't change until B legally throws the ball in. Correct?

B's throw in is due to the violation by A. Correct?

What if B violates during that throw in? Arrow still toward A. Correct?

Tx in advance!
Why would Team A still have the arrow? They violated their AP throw-in, which means Team B has the arrow. If Team B's throw-in is for a violation, why would they lose the arrow?

bucky Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1016048)
When does the arrow change? Did any of those things occur? Is B's throw-in an AP throwin?
Arrow changes when Team A violates or throw-in legally ends. Yes, Team A violated. No, B's throw-in is not an A/P throw-in.

NFHS Case 6.5.4 Sit A.

thumpferee Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:45am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1016065)
Why would Team A still have the arrow? They violated their AP throw-in, which means Team B has the arrow. If Team B's throw-in is for a violation, why would they lose the arrow?
Perfect! I get it now. I needed it explained that way. I may be dislexic.
Thank You! All

bob jenkins Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:51am
Quote:
Originally Posted by thumpferee (Post 1016059)
The first of your questions was my original question. When does the arrow change?

The ball was never legally thrown in, so the arrow wouldn't change until B legally throws the ball in. Correct?
Not correct.

deecee Thu Feb 01, 2018 10:52am
Another instance of rampant AP thrown in issues that has come up a handful of times in my 15 years....

Didn't know this was that hard.

bucky Thu Feb 01, 2018 11:18am
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1016086)
Another instance of rampant AP thrown in issues that has come up a handful of times in my 15 years....

Didn't know this was that hard.
Agree however "..handful of times in my 15 years..." = scarcity. I know it well because of 2 incidents a long time ago. This case and the (A/P + kicking violation) case are burned directly into the piece of cortex I have remaining.

Violation + A/P throw-in + scarcity = confusion

BillyMac Thu Feb 01, 2018 05:26pm
Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by bucky (Post 1016067)
NFHS Case 6.5.4 Sit A.
6.4.5 SITUATION A: Team A is awarded the ball for a throw-in under the alternating
procedure. A1 commits a violation. RULING: B’s ball for a throw-in
because of the violation. In addition, the possession arrow is reversed and is
pointed towards B’s basket. Team B will have the next throw-in opportunity under
the alternating procedure. Team A has lost its opportunity by virtue of the violation.
A violation by Team A during an alternating-possession throw-in is the only
way a team loses its turn under the procedure. COMMENT: If a foul by either team
occurs before an alternating-possession throw-in ends, the foul is penalized as
required and play continues as it normally would, but the possession arrow is not
reversed. The same team will still have the arrow for the next alternating-possession
throw-in. The arrow is reversed when an alternating-possession throw-in
ends. (6-4-4)

SNIPERBBB Thu Feb 01, 2018 05:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by deecee (Post 1016086)
Another instance of rampant AP thrown in issues that has come up a handful of times in my 15 years....

Didn't know this was that hard.
Spent half a local rules meeting plus part of another meeting trying to not browbeat people into understanding that if there is an AP throw-in and any of the scenarios that cause the arrow to not change happens, the immediately following throw-in is not an AP throw in.

BillyMac Thu Feb 01, 2018 06:02pm
Let's Go To The Videotape ...
 
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1016148)
Spent half a local rules meeting plus part of another meeting trying to not browbeat people into understanding that if there is an AP throw-in and any of the scenarios that cause the arrow to not change happens, the immediately following throw-in is not an AP throw in.
4.42.5 SITUATION: Team A is awarded an alternating-possession throw-in.
A1’s throw-in pass is illegally kicked by B2. RULING: As a result of B2’s kicking
violation, Team A is awarded a new throw-in at the designated spot nearest to
where the kicking violation (illegal touching) occurred. Since the alternating-possession
throw-in had not been contacted legally, the throw-in has not ended and
therefore, the arrow remains with Team A for the next alternating-possession
throw-in. COMMENT: The kicking violation ends the alternating-possession
throw-in and as a result, a non-alternating-possession throw-in is administered.
When the ball is legally touched on the subsequent throw-in following the kicking
violation, the arrow shall not be changed and shall remain with Team A.

SNIPERBBB Thu Feb 01, 2018 06:17pm
https://e.deviantart.net/emoticons/u/unimpressed.gif

deecee Fri Feb 02, 2018 08:44pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by SNIPERBBB (Post 1016153)
didn't billy make your point??? the arrow only changes when 1 of 2 things happen.

1. the throw in is legally touched
2. the throw in team violates


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