Coach Conversation middle of game 13 minutes long
 

Tonight my partner dealt with a varsity coach who has on multiple occasions frustrated officials. This school and his team dominate just about every team they play and in unsportsmanlike fashion. In the JV game this varsity was the AC and he decides he is going to make a comment about the the overall foul count of the game. "You've called one foul on blue all night long," we chose to ignore this very first statement out of him all night long. Then we have a foul on blue and as we rotate he begins to clap his hands very condescendingly and very loudly in a quiet gym. My partner then tells him that we do not need that in this game. He then gives a very quiet official warning. The coach does not like the statement from him and starts to argue with him by saying things like "what am I doing, I did not do anything I am just clapping my hands." As they are having this conversation he decides he is going to pull out his phone and begin recording him and everything he is saying to him. My partner then tells him he cannot record and he hands his phone to somebody not on the bench. He then leaves the JV game to go take care of his varsity team.

Varsity game begins.He is now the HC on this game. We get to 4 minutes into the 1st quarter when we have double whistle and a block call on his team. He and the AC both get up out of their seats and start making comments like wow, really, that's ridiculous. Having had them before I did not even bother trying to talk to them about this behavior since they would not listen and gave the bench an official warning. He then wants to discuss why it was a blocking call on his team. I told him no we are done tonight and you have lost that privilege. He then asks my partner how many timeouts he can call in a row my partner tells him 2. They discuss the call during the first timeout then he calls a second timeout and this is where the conversation begins. He starts making statements to my partner like why am I always targeted by you guys, we are always treated unfairly and not given the calls we should get, I just want you guys to to call the game by the book exactly how it is written in the book and administer the Technical fouls and everything else by the book, we are mistreated every single game, is it my face,I am going to beat this team by 70 points, is it the way I dress? So they discuss this for 13 minutes all the while the opposing team is getting frustrated and comes over and says can we play the game now? My partner ignores her and continues his conversation with the coach. I had gone over multiple times to break up the conversation saying we have a game going on and we need to continue this game, I was ignored as well. Meanwhile I am talking to my supervisor about this conversation and he says tonight he is just a bystander and cannot do anything about it. Then the AD comes over and finally stops the conversation after my partner explained to him several times this games is this game and has nothing to do with other games and you can talk to the officials at the appropriate time. He then gets so fed up with it he sits on the bench and covers his ears with his hands. I then pointed out to the AD who had asked us earlier about how he can help diffuse these situations and what he needs to tell the coach that this is the exact kind of "childish behavior we deal with night and night out with him and why we have a hard time with him." This finally ends and we move on and not another peep was heard from the HC the rest of the night.


Thoughts?!?!?!?

My only thoughts are 1) That the conversation went on about 12 minutes and 30 seconds too long, an 2) I am at a loss why the coach was still in the gym after all of this.

13 minutes? Knowing his history and actions earlier in the night, 13 seconds would have been too long of a conversation. Based on your description, I'd like to think I would have warned, T, and second T if it continued...by the book, as he requested. It only continues to be a problem if we allow it to continue to be a problem.

I might of asked the AD to have both the coach and my partner be removed.

*Kidding*

One word... Why?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

Exactly!!!

Peace

My thoughts are there is SO MUCH wrong with the whole evening that I don't know where to begin.

A few things come to mind though.

1) There is no way you should have entertained that level of conversation from an AC during a JV game, or any game for that matter. It doesn't matter if he is the V HC. If they are an AC, you shouldn't be letting them chirp from the bench. Period.

2) How in the world did you and/or your partner not issue a single T in any of this. When he kept on after the official warning in the 2nd game that should have been easy. And a 2nd T should have followed in short order based on what was described.

3) I'm not letting a coach use his timeout to argue with me or my partner. Let alone consecutive ones. Delaying the game for a 13 minute conversation is unconscionable.

4) I was skeptical of the official warning before the season but 99% of what I've seen and observed has been officials using it successfully in getting coaches to curtail their poor behavior. This scenario is the opposite. Sounds like you and your partner used it as a crutch to not call a T and let this coach get away with mass murder.

5) Why to all of it. Just why.......

It took me 13 minutes just to read the OP.

VaTerp, It was not originally supposed to be a crutch. It did not matter what I said to my partner who was the R on the game. I tried to get him to stop talking to him and he refused to listen to me. If it were me I would not have had that conversation, I told him we were done tonight but with my partner was making his own choices, and I do not feel like I can control his actions. The warning was supposed to be what it is a warning. Then a T like the usual steps. My partner refused to give him a T or do anything else till he was satisfied with what he either was going to tell the coach, or till the coach was done. I personally felt like I had no control over what happened. What could I personally do differently in that situation? T up the coach since my partner won't? Then take care of the 2 shot foul we had before this situation then the T, and if they still are not done issue the second T? I just had no idea what the hell was going on. I have never in my career seen something so insane to the point of delaying a game like this. What do you do when you have a partner who refuses to continue the game because he is to busy talking to the coach? I cannot just put the ball in play and go without him can I?

I know I am guilty of long posts. And I personally do not have a problem with long posts, but if you have to make a long post, break it down into smaller paragraphs.

JV Game: He may be the HC of the Varsity Team but during the JV game he is an AC. And as such he needs to be reminded, in a professional manner that this is the JV game and he must conduct himself accordingly. Also the JC HC should be reminded in a professional manner that he needs to keep his Bench under control.

When it was obvious that the VAR HC did not want to conduct himself professionally and the JV HC was not going to do his job in controlling Bench then: WHACK the VAR HC. That will get the attention of both Coaches.

VAR Game: I would have WHACKED the VAR HC at the 4:00 mark of the 1st QT. You have to nip that nonsense in the bud. I will talk with a HC during a TO if he wants to ask a question, but as soon as he wants to start to complain about the officiating I instantly shut him down.

I have one other observation and that is your partner was incorrect with regard to the number of TOs that a Team may request in a row. A team can request, and the request must be granted, as many TOs in a row as it wants, with exception of consecutive TOs after the 4th QT or any OT period.

It is past my bed time so I am going to end this post.

MTD, Sr.

Uhh, why in the hell would you allow this to happened. 2 T’s, and he leave the gym, or the game is over!!
Would have never allowed this to happen. Your partner needs to grow a set of balls. What a putz.

Halftime / Postgame
 

That is insane.
I really want to know what you said to your partner afterwards. What did he say to you? What did your assigner say afterwards?
I cannot imagine what I would do in this scenario.

The OP should've whacked this coach when he clapped sarcastically.

Being the R on a game here is meaningless. The R tosses the ball and has some other duties. It does not mean he can dictate how the rest of the crew operates.

"I'm putting it in play, wrap this up."

Then put it in play.

-- shoulda kept talking
 

I suspect if your partner would have been more patient.. talked to him a couple more minutes he could have gotten to the root of the coach's personal problems that cause him to act this way, then hugged it out, and the game could have continued peacefully. Seems like he gave up too early. I find the 14th minute of a contentious conversation often is the time when they see the light

Sometimes you just need to quit being the nice guy.

100%!!! After about a minute. One hard blow of the whistle and put it back in play.

Here are my thoughts.

You guys let him get away with WAY too much.

I would've had a very frank conversation with my partner at half time. There is NO reason for him to engage a coach for that long. There is NO reason for him to ignore you.

This video would go straight to my supervisor, cc'ed to the state office with a short sentence about how I am requesting to never be put on that coach's games or to work with that partner.

Then you risk become "that guy" at the state office and maybe even your assigner. You have enough juice to avoid that with either?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Agreed. However, there are no number of assignments in the world that would keep me officiating if I have to deal with that crap. This is a fun hobby for me. I don't need it, so if they stopped putting me on games because of that, so be it. Hopefully the supervisor would understand why I wouldn't want to work with this guy.

I was thinking moreso the state office.

Once you end up on their bad list, it's hard to get off. Or so it seems.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Ahh.... Sorry I wasn't clear on that. Our state office doesn't assign anything so it would be pointless to tell them I don't want that school or partner again. The video and note about that school and partner would go to the assignor. I'm just sending the video to the state office along with my ejection paperwork. Sorry I was a bit ambiguous on that.

Does Iowa have a state reporting system for technicals and other special reports? I know in some states, every technical has to reported to the state.

Not even parts of the postseaason?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Negative, only ejections are reported.

Iowa has a weird set up. We have two separate unions, one for the girls and one for the boys.

On the girls side, the people that are in charge are not the ones who assign post season basketball. We have a (can't remember the exact term) director of girls basketball whose only job is to coordinate evaluators and assign the post season. He also assigns for the north/northeast portion of the state. That is his only administrative duty, so he wouldn't see the video that I sent to the state.

On the boys side, the offices is set up in a more (what I imagine to be) traditional way. They oversee all sports and assign post season. So the director of basketball would be the one I'd send that to, and he's also the one who assigns postseason. In that sense, what you're asking about is possible.

Like I said, I know this sounds douchey and I don't mean it to but if I were treated like that by a coach, partner, and AD who did nothing to help, I'd have no problem giving up the post season to not have that headache. This situation seemed like the perfect storm of officials not having the gall to just TCOB, a ridiculous coach, and an inept AD. I can't imagine that sort of thing happening around here where we are pretty fortunate to have quality officials, good administrators, and coaches who behave pretty well.

If I was the other coach, I'd probably be telling the crew that "we're going to the locker room. Come get us when you're ready."

I know I wouldn't sit quietly.

A varsity head coach sitting on a JV bench has a higher than likely chance of being a GFU.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

Wow!
What a waste of time for everyone in the gym!

My Assigner just laughed it off, said that I need to have my partners back no matter what. My partner and I did not talk after the game. I did not care to. He is known to not listen to others no matter what they say.

If using an assigning system like the arbiter; block that official and the team and enjoy the rest of your career!

Your assigner sounds like a genius, too. It's not funny. If everyone in your association cowers to any coach, but particularly the coach who beats the crap out of other teams by 70, it sends a bad message to everyone else.

This may be the most insane scenario that's been posted on this forum. Other posters have already detailed what I would do, but it's complete insanity to have this type of interaction with a coach. At some point, a decision needs to be made and the game needs to go on.

Either you dump him, or the ball needs to be put back in play. This coach was given way, way too much rope.

The assigner said you couldn't do anything, but putting the ball in play would've stopped all of this immediately.

I've had partners go into the backcourt to talk to coaches after fouls -- eventually, we're gonna shoot the free throws.

Exactly, I'm hitting my whistle and putting the ball in play.

I think others have given you sound advice. At some point, you have to do what you have to do. Either walk over and intervene to say you are putting the ball back in play. Or JUST DO IT!

Bottom line is that the coach's behavior, beginning with his conduct on the JV bench, was way out of line and needed to be addressed much earlier and much more strongly. You are right that you can't control your partners actions but you can control what you are going to allow. I'm honestly sorry that you had such a crappy partner who put you in that situation but I'd view that as an opportunity to step up.

This brings up a 2nd larger point. Deference to partners. Many of us giving you advice here have obtained a certain amount of "status" in our respective officiating associations. We get most of the R assignments, work state finals, have a certain respect, familiarity with most of the coaches, etc. And it doesn't matter who we are working with, we are not going to allow certain things and have no problem taking whatever actions are needed to get that point across.

But that was not always that way. We were all the younger, less experienced official at some point in our careers. And for me, at least, there was a time when I was uncertain if I should "challenge" the R on certain things or defer to them on things I was not entirely comfortable with. And depending on what is the norm/expectation in your area and with your assingor there may be some of that here.

My advice though is that you have to be assertive, sooner rather than later. At the HS level I've seen a few guys whose schedule suffered b/c they rubbed people the wrong way, people thought they were too cocky too early or whatever. But 9 times out of 10, officials who are assertive and, within the rules, address situations and bench decorum appropriately are the ones who see their schedules take off and earn the respect of their peers, assigners, and coaches.

Most of us don't do this for the money. We do it because, on some level, we enjoy it and we want to do this. That said, there is stuff we have to deal with- obnoxious coaches, players, fans, partners, bad games, etc. IMO, life is too short to deal with BS like what your partner and the coach pulled. So DON'T deal with it. Put an end to it as best you can within the rules. If your assignor doesnt support you, then maybe that's an assignor who doesnt need your availability. I don't know what your situation is like where you live but here people have options.

So, long-winded post but I will end by saying that people are often too deferential to the R when in reality that title means little once the ball is tossed. When you know something is not right, like your situation that evening, step up and use the tools you have to manage the game appropriately. If your partner doesnt like it, then that's on them. Any assingor worth $0.02 will support an official curtailing the ridiculous behavior of a coach who delays a game for that period of time, which was about 12 minutes and 45 seconds too long.

This, from Fuelrider's post #28, is what bewilders me: "My Assigner just laughed it off...."

What kind of response is that? That's one helpful assigner....

This was one of the most ridiculous things I have read.


I would have either put the ball in play and hoped he came out as trail or just refed the thing by myself.

I would block my partner and refuse to work with him ever again

I have found a long stare or a dirty look will get a coach fired up enough to say something stupid and then I just T him up or throw him out.