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-   -   Play overtime or not? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/103349-play-overtime-not.html)

jritchie Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:20pm

Play overtime or not?
 
A1 drives to basket, tie game, little contact, no foul, buzzer ends regulation. Coach comes out on floor and says "what, no foul? you guys are the worst f-bomb officials I have ever seen" "Whack"
Question: Now that regulation had ended and technical came after time had ended. Does Team B shoot free throws for the win or just to start overtime with the lead and the ball?

UNIgiantslayers Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:24pm

Check your casebook. I promise you'll find your answer.

deecee Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:25pm

This has been discussed quite a few times over the last month. I didn't know this issue was so rampant these days.

crosscountry55 Fri Jan 12, 2018 01:52pm

I wonder if it involved the same Illinois game? I mean, this doesn’t happen that often, does it?


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jritchie Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:02pm

Happened in Kentucky here twice in the same week, one set of officials did it one way the other set did it the other. Just a big conversation going on about it.

bob jenkins Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:12pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie (Post 1014599)
Happened in Kentucky here twice in the same week, one set of officials did it one way the other set did it the other. Just a big conversation going on about it.

Point everyone to 5.6.2.C (a). That case involves a Player T after the 4th quarter ends, and not a coach T, but ...

todd66 Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:33pm

Start the overtime with the 2 free throws for team A. Team A then gets the ball to start OT and the arrow is set to team B, once the throw in ends.

crosscountry55 Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:33pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by crosscountry55 (Post 1014596)
I wonder if it involved the same Illinois game? I mean, this doesn’t happen that often, does it?

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie (Post 1014599)
Happened in Kentucky here twice in the same week.

I stand corrected.

There's a reason I read through the case book....cover to cover....at least once a year. If only all officials did this. Actually, come to think of it, if even one out of three did, we'd have a pretty good chance of getting these things right.

Raymond Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:37pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by todd66 (Post 1014602)
Start the overtime with the 2 free throws for team A. Team A then gets the ball to start OT and the arrow is set to team B, once the throw in ends.

The arrow is set when the ball is put at the disposal of the thrower-in.

todd66 Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:42pm

That is correct. I was thinking that the throw in to start OT was a AP throw in but it is not. Thanks for catching that mistake on my part.

jritchie Fri Jan 12, 2018 02:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 1014600)
Point everyone to 5.6.2.C (a). That case involves a Player T after the 4th quarter ends, and not a coach T, but ...

Why are the two situations given in the case book different?

Part A says if tied, then the free throws will be part of the overtime
Part B says if team that got T, is leading you shoot the free throws as part of the 4th quarter to see if other team can tie to force OT or win.

I think that was part of the confusion, doesn't make sense that they are treated differently.

Since Part B is part of the 4th quarter, I don't understand why they both wouldn't be. You haven't started the overtime yet, and a player or coach did something stupid after regulation, so they should treat them both as part of the 4th quarter and shoot to win the game. Just my opinion..

But thanks for the case book play, it helps, even though I don't agree. :)

Raymond Fri Jan 12, 2018 03:01pm

People not agreeing with a rule does cause confusion. Whenever I discuss rules I steer folks away from their opinion about the rule or what it is in another rule set, and stick to what the rule actually is and what is written in the case and rule books.

UNIgiantslayers Fri Jan 12, 2018 03:08pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raymond (Post 1014608)
People not agreeing with a rule does cause confusion. Whenever I discuss rules I steer folks away from their opinion about the rule or what it is in another rule set, and stick to what the rule actually is and what is written in the case and rule books.

How exactly do you do that tactfully? There's an old-timer around here who just got back into it and was discussing PC with kids earlier this year. He was telling them that if they turn away from the contact, they will get called for a block every time. By my understanding, you can brace for contact which that seems like it would fall under. I tried to tell him that, but he said something along the lines of "yeah, that's the rule but no good official will call it that way if someone turns away or braces themselves like that."

bob jenkins Fri Jan 12, 2018 03:24pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie (Post 1014607)
Why are the two situations given in the case book different?

Because the second is an "exception" to the rule that anything that happens after a quarter ends (all activity associated with the previous quarter has been completed), anything new that happens is part of the next quarter (or, in this instance, OT).

deecee Sat Jan 13, 2018 08:02am

Quote:

Originally Posted by jritchie (Post 1014607)
Why are the two situations given in the case book different?

Part A says if tied, then the free throws will be part of the overtime
Part B says if team that got T, is leading you shoot the free throws as part of the 4th quarter to see if other team can tie to force OT or win.

I think that was part of the confusion, doesn't make sense that they are treated differently.

Since Part B is part of the 4th quarter, I don't understand why they both wouldn't be. You haven't started the overtime yet, and a player or coach did something stupid after regulation, so they should treat them both as part of the 4th quarter and shoot to win the game. Just my opinion..

But thanks for the case book play, it helps, even though I don't agree. :)

The situations are completely different. One has a team "winning" at the end of the quarter and the other the game is tied. In a tied game when the buzzer sounds the next action is overtime. In a game where a team has a lead and the buzzer sounds the game is over. A T at this point could change that to a different team winning, overtime, or leave it the same and the same team wins the contest. Overtime doesn't exist in the scenario where a team is leading at the end.


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